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Lateral view of a Male Baetis (Baetidae) (Blue-Winged Olive) Mayfly Dun from Mystery Creek #43 in New York
Blue-winged Olives
Baetis

Tiny Baetis mayflies are perhaps the most commonly encountered and imitated by anglers on all American trout streams due to their great abundance, widespread distribution, and trout-friendly emergence habits.

Dorsal view of a Skwala (Perlodidae) (Large Springfly) Stonefly Nymph from the Yakima River in Washington
This Skwala nymph still has a couple months left to go before hatching, but it's still a good representative of its species, which was extremely abundant in my sample for a stonefly of this size. It's obvious why the Yakima is known for its Skwala hatch.
27" brown trout, my largest ever. It was the sub-dominant fish in its pool. After this, I hooked the bigger one, but I couldn't land it.
Troutnut is a project started in 2003 by salmonid ecologist Jason "Troutnut" Neuswanger to help anglers and fly tyers unabashedly embrace the entomological side of the sport. Learn more about Troutnut or support the project for an enhanced experience here.

Jesse
Jesse's profile picture
Posts: 378
Jesse on Aug 15, 2011August 15th, 2011, 9:01 am EDT
So im pretty much tired of the argument of how fluorocarbon is SOOO much better than monofilament in all aspects of the fly fishing game. I personally don't feel the need to pay an extra ten dollars to get the shit when i don't think there is that much of a difference. Now i do use fluoro in certain circumstances but out of all the years ive been doing this fly fishing thing i have never used it on a regular basis. And i feel like ive always done just fine without it. However, due to yet another small fishing argument trying to back up goood old mono im curious to see how everyone feels about this issue. Im by no means bashing fluoro because i do use it sparingly and i know its more sun absorbent and has less flex. But i just don't get why people say that if your not fishing fluoro your doing it wrong. The thoughts please!?
Most of us fish our whole lives..not knowing its not the fish that we are after.
http://www.filingoflyfishing.com
CaseyP
CaseyP's profile picture
Arlington, VA/ Mercersburg, PA

Posts: 653
CaseyP on Aug 15, 2011August 15th, 2011, 9:20 am EDT
it's simple, Jesse: if you're not doing it my way, you're doing it wrong!

all too many practitioners of anything at all become absolutists when they think they've got it figured out. if you're with a guide whom you've paid to help you catch fish, then it's a good idea to put up with it. if not, your way is as good as any.

me? mono mostly, with knots (my personal bugaboo) that work, and flouro for Czech nymphing leaders because it sinks a bit better.

i'm still having trouble making knots that won't undo on flouro--someone said don't make extra windings, make fewer, because the stuff is harder and fewer windings bite into the standing part of the line better. hey, sounds plausible as long as the knot has a rep of not slipping!
"You can observe a lot by watching." Yogi Berra
Adirman
Adirman's profile picture
Monticello, NY

Posts: 479
Adirman on Aug 15, 2011August 15th, 2011, 3:47 pm EDT
Yeah, I don't see much of a difference so I just use the mono. The whole biodegradability solidified my decision to go w/ exclusively mono although don't they have new flouro out that is biod? Probably expensive as hell too!
Jesse
Jesse's profile picture
Posts: 378
Jesse on Aug 16, 2011August 16th, 2011, 6:27 am EDT
Yeah i totally forgot the fact that fluoro isn't biodegradable, good point thanks for bringing that back up!
Most of us fish our whole lives..not knowing its not the fish that we are after.
http://www.filingoflyfishing.com
CaseyP
CaseyP's profile picture
Arlington, VA/ Mercersburg, PA

Posts: 653
CaseyP on Aug 16, 2011August 16th, 2011, 7:39 am EDT
repeat after me:

Monomaster.

$9.95-$13.95 next the register of every self-respecting fly shop. happily eats yards and yards of mono and flouro, thereby saving wildlife, the environment in general--and me, whose boots find every discarded leader on the bank. trips ya up something awful!
"You can observe a lot by watching." Yogi Berra
Jesse
Jesse's profile picture
Posts: 378
Jesse on Aug 16, 2011August 16th, 2011, 8:32 am EDT
CaseyP - maybe im just a little slow so excuse me but what exactly did you mean by your last post it kind of threw me off?
Most of us fish our whole lives..not knowing its not the fish that we are after.
http://www.filingoflyfishing.com
JOHNW
JOHNW's profile picture
Chambersburg, PA

Posts: 452
JOHNW on Aug 16, 2011August 16th, 2011, 2:08 pm EDT
Jesse,
I'm thinking Casey was referring to a way to store dicarded leaders/tippet until they can be disposed of in a "green" manner.
JW
"old habits are hard to kill once you have gray in your beard" -Old Red Barn
Gutcutter
Gutcutter's profile picture
Pennsylvania

Posts: 470
Gutcutter on Aug 16, 2011August 16th, 2011, 5:51 pm EDT
So im pretty much tired of the argument of how fluorocarbon is SOOO much better than monofilament in all aspects of the fly fishing game. I personally don't feel the need to pay an extra ten dollars to get the shit when i don't think there is that much of a difference...

...But i just don't get why people say that if your not fishing fluoro your doing it wrong. The thoughts please!?


Jesse
Why bring up the argument at all if you are tired of it?
From the pictures you post, I'd wager that you are doing just fine your way, and those that disagree with you probably aren't!
I'll tell you what - how about you take me to some of those secret spots and I'll fish fluoro and you fish mono and we'll see what happens. Of course it will all be done just to settle this argument and I won't bring my GPS...
All men who fish may in turn be divided into two parts: those who fish for trout and those who don't. Trout fishermen are a race apart: they are a dedicated crew- indolent, improvident, and quietly mad.

-Robert Traver, Trout Madness
Sayfu
Posts: 560
Sayfu on Aug 17, 2011August 17th, 2011, 4:45 am EDT
My two bits again. The negative factor for mono, is in the extruding process, it comes out "Shiny" If you could dull mono, remove the shininess from mono it would be far less a factor at turning away selective fish. Fluoro is very close to the same shininess as water..refractory index is the term I think used. But I have caught lots of fish on both. The one fallacy regarding fluoro is that it is heavier, and will sink your dry flies. The surface tension of water is far greater than the wt. of fluoro. Want to get fluoro cheap? I pay less for fluoro than I do a 30M spool of mono tippet material. Have an empty spool, and go to a big box sporting goods store....I go to Sportsman's Warehouse, and have them fill me up in bulk with "P" Line fluoro, 50 yds. Costs me $5. But in riffled water, and I often fish fly first on my drifts? Probably no difference.
CaseyP
CaseyP's profile picture
Arlington, VA/ Mercersburg, PA

Posts: 653
CaseyP on Aug 17, 2011August 17th, 2011, 11:52 am EDT
oops, sorry, Jesse. my post was in response to yours:

i totally forgot the fact that fluoro isn't biodegradable


if the snippet of tippet is longer than two-three inches, in it goes--and stays there, unlike in my pocket where it follows my wet fingers out again.
"You can observe a lot by watching." Yogi Berra
Jesse
Jesse's profile picture
Posts: 378
Jesse on Aug 18, 2011August 18th, 2011, 2:53 pm EDT
Gutcutter - I ask the question because i was just curious to see some responses and to make sure that out of a well spoken and experienced group of fly fishers (troutnuts), i wasn't the only one that thought this. But as you said i am doing just fine and about the secret spots thing..
Most of us fish our whole lives..not knowing its not the fish that we are after.
http://www.filingoflyfishing.com
Jesse
Jesse's profile picture
Posts: 378
Jesse on Aug 18, 2011August 18th, 2011, 2:54 pm EDT
For the rest, good stuff i like hearing all these thoughts!
Most of us fish our whole lives..not knowing its not the fish that we are after.
http://www.filingoflyfishing.com
Adirman
Adirman's profile picture
Monticello, NY

Posts: 479
Adirman on Aug 18, 2011August 18th, 2011, 3:12 pm EDT
There is another issue that is also an impt part of the equation: flouro usually costs more does it not? I'll go w/ the cheaper stuff everytime if it does the job!!
Gutcutter
Gutcutter's profile picture
Pennsylvania

Posts: 470
Gutcutter on Aug 18, 2011August 18th, 2011, 5:10 pm EDT
I use both.
I find that on the smaller tippet sizes (7x and 8x), I am fond of fluoro. I like mono for 6x and above, and ironically also 9x and 10x.
With the tiniest diameter tippet, I think that fluoro is too stiff, and this results in increased microdrag.
I don't use it for the refractive index, but for the increase in strength to diameter ratio.
All men who fish may in turn be divided into two parts: those who fish for trout and those who don't. Trout fishermen are a race apart: they are a dedicated crew- indolent, improvident, and quietly mad.

-Robert Traver, Trout Madness
Entoman
Entoman's profile picture
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Entoman on Aug 18, 2011August 18th, 2011, 5:48 pm EDT
Tony -

I don't use it for the refractive index...


I agree! You don't see this point of view mentioned very often. I don't use it much for dry flies due to the stiffness reason you mentioned. For nymphs though, it's almost all I use. Its sink rate and strength/toughness are the reasons. When the fish are in the mood, I tend to get lazy about knot changes after landing a few nice fish. This can be fatal with co-polymer. I've had days on the Lower Sac of thirty fish or more without having to change knots except for a few fly changes or tangles. Try that with co-polymer knots and you'll lose the nice fish after a couple or so.

Kurt
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
Jesse
Jesse's profile picture
Posts: 378
Jesse on Aug 19, 2011August 19th, 2011, 4:51 am EDT
Gutcutter did you say that you use 9 and 10x tippet??
Most of us fish our whole lives..not knowing its not the fish that we are after.
http://www.filingoflyfishing.com
Oldredbarn
Oldredbarn's profile picture
Novi, MI

Posts: 2600
Oldredbarn on Aug 19, 2011August 19th, 2011, 6:44 am EDT
Gutcutter did you say that you use 9 and 10x tippet??


Jess...Yes that is what he said...There's no hope for the man! ;) Can't you just imagine the micro-dot at the end of his terminal tackle?! I'd need a microscope! I have fished small myself but have no memory of anything smaller than a #24/#26 and 7X...and I've tried to block those memories...Tony, on-the-other-hand, is one sick puppy! :)

Imagine that hog you are holding there in your profile picture and the only thing between he and you and his freedom is a size 32 something-or-other and tippet as thin as spider wire! Now that would get the blood flowing!

In another lifetime my brother-in-law and I ran a surveyors supply house and we sold high end equipment for Zeiss and GPS equipment for Ashtech out of Sunnyvale CA...One of the "old-school" things I would do was to repair surveying equipment and some of the old sites on levels had crosshairs made from real spider web. It comes in a little box and is not the easiest thing to do to repair these sites, as you can imagine. In fact today I would probably be unable to do it since my eyesight isn't what it was.

That is the closest thing I have encountered to what Tony and the "micro-boys" like to play with when they are fishing. "Boys and their toys, eh!"

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
TNEAL
GRAYLING. MICHIGAN

Posts: 278
TNEAL on Aug 19, 2011August 19th, 2011, 4:41 pm EDT
Tie your trico spinner imitations right at the bend of a #8 hook and you can use 3x......
Sayfu
Posts: 560
Sayfu on Aug 21, 2011August 21st, 2011, 4:56 am EDT

Wow! 9X and 10X. You guess must have pet spiders. I would definitely have to re-think my heavy handed hook set!
Gutcutter
Gutcutter's profile picture
Pennsylvania

Posts: 470
Gutcutter on Aug 21, 2011August 21st, 2011, 10:28 am EDT
Seaguar GrandMax FX Fluorocarbon Tippet
6x - 3.7 lb test
7x - 2.6 lb test

Varivas Super Tippet
7x - 2.4 lb test

Varivas Midge Tippet
8x - 2.05 lb test
9x - 1.66 lb test
10x- 1.37 lb test

#22 or 24 Trico - 7x or 8x

#24 or 26 Acentrella - 8x or 9x

#28, 30, and 32 Chironomidae - 8x, 9x or 10x

Say or think what you want. Works for me...
All men who fish may in turn be divided into two parts: those who fish for trout and those who don't. Trout fishermen are a race apart: they are a dedicated crew- indolent, improvident, and quietly mad.

-Robert Traver, Trout Madness

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