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Artistic view of a Male Pteronarcys californica (Pteronarcyidae) (Giant Salmonfly) Stonefly Adult from the Gallatin River in Montana
Salmonflies
Pteronarcys californica

The giant Salmonflies of the Western mountains are legendary for their proclivity to elicit consistent dry-fly action and ferocious strikes.

Lateral view of a Male Baetidae (Blue-Winged Olive) Mayfly Dun from Mystery Creek #308 in Washington
This dun emerged from a mature nymph on my desk. Unfortunately its wings didn't perfectly dry out.
27" brown trout, my largest ever. It was the sub-dominant fish in its pool. After this, I hooked the bigger one, but I couldn't land it.
Troutnut is a project started in 2003 by salmonid ecologist Jason "Troutnut" Neuswanger to help anglers and fly tyers unabashedly embrace the entomological side of the sport. Learn more about Troutnut or support the project for an enhanced experience here.

David82nd
David82nd's profile picture
Upstate,New York

Posts: 63
David82nd on Jun 8, 2017June 8th, 2017, 10:36 am EDT
Hey guys just put new line on a new reel , I have a question the new line has the loop at end I have always in the past cut the loop off and added my leader , but thought about trying a " loop to loop connection? , how do you guys add you're leaders? Do you go loop to loop or snip the loop off line ,and connect leader to line ? Lol not sure why I've always snipped the loops off leader and line , guess I've always had this thought it would add to a smoother presentation, you're input is valued , thanks guys
Partsman
Partsman's profile picture
bancroft michigan

Posts: 321
Partsman on Jun 8, 2017June 8th, 2017, 10:41 am EDT
For the smaller stream fishing I do I leave the loop to loop connection, I have been tying my own leaders this year and so far everything is working ok, but I really want to tweak this stuff so I have to fish more to experiment with leader fly and line combos! Really I just like making a lot of my stuff, I'm not sure leader making will last but I have to try.
Mike.
David82nd
David82nd's profile picture
Upstate,New York

Posts: 63
David82nd on Jun 8, 2017June 8th, 2017, 11:07 am EDT
Thanks mike , hey that's why we tie our own flies, we like to make it our own . I've had a thing thinking it would mess/ w fly presentation when casting ? , but I think I'll try the loop to loop connection, if it don't work no problmn , lol snip...snip.
PABrownie
PABrownie's profile picture
Gallitzin PA

Posts: 42
PABrownie on Jun 9, 2017June 9th, 2017, 7:24 am EDT
I like a knotted connection or a super glue connection over a loop to loop. The simple reasoning of that the knot passes through your guides much easier than a bulky loop to loop.

The loop to loop also creates a hinge point, potentially affecting your presentation, although minutely. Mere mortals probably couldn't tell the difference but I suppose the devil is in the details.
Roguerat
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Posts: 456
Roguerat on Jun 9, 2017June 9th, 2017, 8:21 am EDT
line to leader stuff-

I've made my own end-loops by nail-knotting a short length of heavier tippet to the end of the fly line, with a very small perfection loop or similar in this reduced section. Maybe its me but I feel the smallest loop possible reduces the hinge factor and improves the 'handshake' connection between the fly line and actual leader (a loop in the butt of the leader, as well). Given my current tendency to throw tailing loops too often this also reduces the possibility of an errant cast getting a hook caught in a loop somewhere and then it all goes to crap...

Super glue: has anyone ever had a fly line crack at the knot due to super glue making the line to rigid? I just had a fairly expensive 7 wt line crack (not break, just crack the line coating and create a REAL hinge effect) above the knot. Not sure if the glue was the culprit but its the only reason I can see. I've used silicone sealant on occasion with the intent of reinforcing, sealing, and smoothing the knot somewhat, not sure if this is Kosher either.

Roguerat

'Less is more...'

Ludwig Mies Vande Rohe
Wbranch
Wbranch's profile picture
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2635
Wbranch on Jun 9, 2017June 9th, 2017, 5:37 pm EDT
Cut off the loop, tie a neat nail knot, carefully coat knot with Loon "Knot Sense" tapering on either end and either cure with a UV light or take it outside in the bright sun light for about 30 seconds. This slips through the guides effortlessly.
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
David82nd
David82nd's profile picture
Upstate,New York

Posts: 63
David82nd on Jun 10, 2017June 10th, 2017, 1:00 am EDT
Cut off the loop, tie a neat nail knot, carefully coat knot with Loon "Knot Sense" tapering on either end and either cure with a UV light or take it outside in the bright sun light for about 30 seconds. This slips through the guides effortlessly.

This is how I've always done it Matt, thank you. I'm sticking to this way. You're right this is proper
Wbranch
Wbranch's profile picture
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2635
Wbranch on Jun 11, 2017June 11th, 2017, 12:30 am EDT
The addition of the loop at the end off fly lines was likely developed because many newbies, and probably many veteran fly fishers, couldn't tie a neat nail knot to save their lives.
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
Roguerat
Roguerat's profile picture
Posts: 456
Roguerat on Jun 11, 2017June 11th, 2017, 2:54 am EDT
Matt,

I'll personally confess I'm somewhat slow with a nail knot, likely why I use this for the line to backing connection...they aren't ugly or anything but it takes some time.
I'm playing devil's advocate here, but what about leader changes on-stream, say going from a 12 or 14' dry leader to a 7' streamer or nymph setup? This is why I kind of like the loop connections, quick(er) change-outs. I've added and cut off tippet to do this as well but a small loop/handshake connection is not all that bad, either.
OR I could simply rig different rods with appropriate leader setups, something I've also done but this requires wading back to the walk-in point, then to the truck, etc, etc.

Either way, tight lines and keep your wisdom coming- its appreciated.

Roguerat

'Less is more...'

Ludwig Mies Vande Rohe

David82nd
David82nd's profile picture
Upstate,New York

Posts: 63
David82nd on Jun 11, 2017June 11th, 2017, 4:48 am EDT
I agree w/ you Matt. This is how I've been doing it , it's smoother through the guides , " as far as changing leaders on the water , I usually just tie them to line snip close , and it's no issue ever , I guess I'm just more comfortable , or confident tying knots , I rarely don't need to change leaders , I will go through plenty of tip it , I constantly change on the conditions in river ..... I love all the knowledge and experience we share here , great group of guys.
David82nd
David82nd's profile picture
Upstate,New York

Posts: 63
David82nd on Jun 11, 2017June 11th, 2017, 4:48 am EDT
David82nd
David82nd's profile picture
Upstate,New York

Posts: 63
David82nd on Jun 11, 2017June 11th, 2017, 4:48 am EDT
Oops lol
Wbranch
Wbranch's profile picture
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2635
Wbranch on Jun 11, 2017June 11th, 2017, 8:13 am EDT
Rogue,

I'm playing devil's advocate here, but what about leader changes on-stream, say going from a 12 or 14' dry leader to a 7' streamer or nymph setup?


When I dry fly fish that is all I do. I don't have to worry about a nymph leader or a streamer leader. I start out with a 12' 4X leader. I snip off about 4' from the bottom and immediately attach a 1.5mm tippet ring. To the other side of the tippet ring I clinch knot the 4' length of tippet I had snipped off. Now when my tippet gets short I just add a new 4' length of tippet.

On my streamer rod or steelhead nymphing rods I nail knot in a piece of .026 Red Amenesia running line about 24" long and tie a Perfection loop on the opposite end. I loop to loop 4' - 6' long heavy streamer leaders to the #7 rod and 7' - 9' 3X or 4X leaders with tippet rings to the #6 weight steelhead rods.

Since I have the cabin right at river side if I want to go out and throw streamers in the early morning for a few hours it is very easy for me to grab the #7 rod, a box of streamers, a spool of 1X, a nipper and forceps and go up river a couple hundred yards and fish my way back to the cabin. Then take off the waders, have a nice breakfast, boot up again and grab the dry fly rod and fish until I get hungry. Have a hot lunch, a nap, sit streamside with a Myers run and coke and wait for the fish to start rising. It is a very pleasant way to spend my later years.
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
David82nd
David82nd's profile picture
Upstate,New York

Posts: 63
David82nd on Jun 11, 2017June 11th, 2017, 8:24 am EDT
I like that riverside cocktail thought 😊 Sounds great
Jmd123
Jmd123's profile picture
Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2474
Jmd123 on Jun 11, 2017June 11th, 2017, 10:55 am EDT
Nice lifestyle there, Matt. One I aspire to...you are an inspiration!

Jonathon
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
PABrownie
PABrownie's profile picture
Gallitzin PA

Posts: 42
PABrownie on Jun 12, 2017June 12th, 2017, 2:54 am EDT
Just another way to do things, there was a question on leader changes when dealing with nail knots.

One way to do things, which is the way I currently do it now, is to nail knot 8" of 25lb butt section to your fly line. Attach a tippet ring to that short piece of butt section. Now when you do a leader change you just attach your leader to the tippet ring. The 2.00mm tippet rings are not any bigger than a conventional blood knot, this creates ease of leader change, as well as keeping the leader to fly line connection streamlined to go through guides easily. I like this set up because I go from a 30' contact nymph leader to a conventional leader often, I dont like loops, and I dont necessarily enjoy tying blood knots, so this is the approach I use.
Wbranch
Wbranch's profile picture
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2635
Wbranch on Jun 12, 2017June 12th, 2017, 4:07 am EDT
PABrownie wrote;

is to nail knot 8" of 25lb butt section to your fly line. Attach a tippet ring to that short piece of butt section. Now when you do a leader change you just attach your leader to the tippet ring. The 2.00mm tippet rings are not any bigger than a conventional blood knot, this creates ease of leader change, as well as keeping the leader to fly line connection streamlined to go through guides easily. I like this set up because I go from a 30' contact nymph leader to a conventional leader often, I dont like loops, and I dont necessarily enjoy tying blood knots, so this is the approach I use.


I very much like your concept. I used to nail knot a piece of .026" nylon to the end of the fly line and tie a small Perfection loop on the other end. I kept the piece of nylon between 6" - 8" long so as not to lengthen my already long leader. The problem for me was mostly esthetic as I don't especially like the "hand shake" connection but also when you use 12'- 15' leaders that loop to loop can easily get caught in not only the tip top but the first 2-3 snake guides as well. A big fish will often surge away when it sees the net and that surge could easily break a delicate tip.

I'm going to give that a try on a couple of my other reels, maybe my Lamson Litespeed for a #5 rod. Thanks for the idea.
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.

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