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Lateral view of a Male Baetis (Baetidae) (Blue-Winged Olive) Mayfly Dun from Mystery Creek #43 in New York
Blue-winged Olives
Baetis

Tiny Baetis mayflies are perhaps the most commonly encountered and imitated by anglers on all American trout streams due to their great abundance, widespread distribution, and trout-friendly emergence habits.

Dorsal view of a Neoleptophlebia (Leptophlebiidae) Mayfly Nymph from the Yakima River in Washington
Some characteristics from the microscope images for the tentative species id: The postero-lateral projections are found only on segment 9, not segment 8. Based on the key in Jacobus et al. (2014), it appears to key to Neoleptophlebia adoptiva or Neoleptophlebia heteronea, same as this specimen with pretty different abdominal markings. However, distinguishing between those calls for comparing the lengths of the second and third segment of the labial palp, and this one (like the other one) only seems to have two segments. So I'm stuck on them both. It's likely that the fact that they're immature nymphs stymies identification in some important way.
27" brown trout, my largest ever. It was the sub-dominant fish in its pool. After this, I hooked the bigger one, but I couldn't land it.
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Stokes
Columbia county,NY

Posts: 76
Stokes on Feb 12, 2014February 12th, 2014, 11:41 am EST
When using a nymph on a dropper line tied to the bend of a hook on a dry,is there some formula or such to determine the size of the nymph in relation to the size of the dry?Does it matter which one is bigger?
Wbranch
Wbranch's profile picture
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2635
Wbranch on Feb 12, 2014February 12th, 2014, 11:57 am EST
Yep, it matters because if the nymph is very much bigger than the dry it is going to cause the dry fly to probably sink. I would never use a hook size any larger than the dry fly that is acting as the indicator. For example if my dry fly was a #16 then my nymph would be #16 or smaller, not bigger. That's my opinion.
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
Stokes
Columbia county,NY

Posts: 76
Stokes on Feb 12, 2014February 12th, 2014, 12:10 pm EST
Thanks,I kind of figured that would be one issue,but what about casting consideration,is there some balance to consider for proper turnover?
PaulRoberts
PaulRoberts's profile picture
Colorado

Posts: 1776
PaulRoberts on Feb 12, 2014February 12th, 2014, 2:56 pm EST
Not that I can think of... Beyond basic line weight considerations against the addition of mass or air resistance in the flies, weight of the point fly would be the major issue in terms of not sinking the dry, as Matt says, and in casting; Keeping a more open loop is pretty important with such a rig regardless. Keeping a short dropper helps a lot.

To help with dry fly buoyancy I found that making a good tail helps a lot bc the tail is the first to be pulled through surface film by the dropper. I started making "indicator" dry fly versions using double, splayed, fibettes and a central tail of Antron-esqe (water resistant) material. I also slide the dropper knot up high on the dry’s bend, snugged right under the tail and grease the first few inches of the dropper. I think there’s a thread somewhere in which I posted an indicator dry.

In general, I found that while dryfly-n-dropper certainly has places where it works great, it is NOT a good GENERAL nymphing rig as each fly is forced to operate in different, often opposing, forces –certainly the rig does not offer the best of both worlds.
Wbranch
Wbranch's profile picture
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2635
Wbranch on Feb 12, 2014February 12th, 2014, 3:27 pm EST
Paul wrote;

"Keeping a more open loop is pretty important with such a rig regardless. Keeping a short dropper helps a lot"

Yep, I agree 100%. An open loop will allow the two fly rig to straighten out better to minimize tangles. Ditto for a short dropper. I know this might be weird but often, on some waters, I'll use two dry flies. Maybe because I can't see the point fly or sometimes both flies are the same but one or two sizes apart.

When I use two dries I usually use a about a 24" tippet between the flies. You pretty much have to slow down the casting stroke or you are gonna get a nice tangle with this rig. Sometimes I get dizzy watching two flies but it helps me to hook up fish that might eat a #22 fly that I can't see - when the upper fly dips I strike.
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
PaulRoberts
PaulRoberts's profile picture
Colorado

Posts: 1776
PaulRoberts on Feb 12, 2014February 12th, 2014, 5:37 pm EST
I've done that too -the two dries, for visibility. I also may use a dry as an indicator for near-surface nymphs. I've had times when trout take the nymph so imperceptibly that I had to watch for added tension on the dropper line itself. A fresh dry dropper was needed, and it a bit kinked or coiled so that some of it stuck above the surface. That way I could see it tense. When the material was soaked, or was pulled straight, it would lay too low on the surface and I couldn’t see some of the takes. This strike detection "technique" was on flat water and couldn’t be used in any turbulence.

In general, droppers off dries work best when the point fly is fished close to the surface. The deeper it goes the more likely the disparate current speeds are going to cause drag at either end -often both. If you aren't catching, look at drag/fly speed -a lot of ills lie there, and they are not readily apparent unless you know how the rig configuration operates in various current. This is why I use my "indicators" as much as "drift indicators" as "strike indicators", and why I suggest that a dry as a dropper is not the best of both worlds, often the worst of both worlds.
Stokes
Columbia county,NY

Posts: 76
Stokes on Feb 13, 2014February 13th, 2014, 7:12 am EST
Thanks guys.Most of the streams I will be fishing this year are smaller tributaries and headwaters so I will be using a dropper tippet of 24" or less,with either my 2 or 3wt.Casts are typically within 15-30ft.

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