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3. Stroft

Has anyone tried stroft tippet material? It claims great breaking strength.

I have, and like it. But there are several different types of Stroft, with different properties and breaking strengths, so you may want to compare them. Also, Enrico Puglisi tippet has very high breaking strength, especially in the smaller sizes.

http://www.waterstrider.com/fishing-gear.htm

Thanks for the input...

Breaking strength is one thing, an important thing, but what about other properties? Suppleness? Or ability to not turn into pig tails at the knots when working with the 6,7, & 8x's.

Over the last twenty years the breaking strength has definitely improved, but I'm left wanting. This old dry fly guy is being left behind to satisfy the articulated streamer crowd. Don't need much in the way of suppleness at 3x or stouter.

Spence the Whiner

Dear Whiner,
you have not been left behind. two words: Rio Suppleflex. That said, I have never used the Stroft nylon so I cannot comment on it. Other than it would have to be pretty good stuff to get me to change.

From a NZ website: "Stroft is becoming very popular and is the choice of many competition anglers because of it's suppleness. Stroft Tippets material is available in 3 types with the GTM nylon being the most popular. ARB is stiffer so is more wear resistance while the Stroft Fluorocarbon has a softer feel so is more supple than many fluorocarbons."

http://www.flyshop.co.nz/category/stroft.html

However, Flyfisherman magazine did its own tippet tests and found Stroft to be among the more "stiff," with Rio Powerflex coming in as "medium" and Scientific Anglers, Trout Hunter, and Dai-Riki Dynamic as the only "supple" nylon tippet material among the ones tested.

http://www.flyfisherman.com/2012/05/07/2012-tippet-shootout/#axzz2mHhfvdKU

A quotation from the article:

"Many good fly fishers have found the stiffness of fluorocarbon to be an advantage in obtaining casting accuracy, especially with fine tippets like 5X, 6X, and 7X. While getting a perfect drag-free drift is the key to technical dry-fly fishing and nymph fishing, good anglers can usually find ways to induce the necessary slack they need to get a dead-drift by mending, feeding out line, or using casting techniques such as a reach cast or slack-line cast.

For these reasons, we feel stiffer materials are better. However, we know other anglers prefer more supple monofilaments like Dai-Riki Dynamic, or TroutHunter nylon, that more easily flow with swirling currents."

In their overall assessment of more than two dozen kinds of tippet, Rio Powerflex came in number 3 and Stroft came in number 4. Number 1 was Trouthunter Fluorocarbon and number 2 was Seguar GrandMax Fluorocarbon.

I don't think the average angler can really tell much of a difference among the mainstream brands. I've used them all and caught fish using them all. It's the same argument among rod builders and the use of double or singlefoot guides. Some say they add weight. Maybe so, but you can't feel the added weight, so what's the difference? That being said I like Dai Riki. I know, I'm a novice, I'm misinformed, I lack intelligence, I lack experience, etc. etc. Well, it takes one to know one, and you're the one I know. Ha! Ha!

Off topic, but I sense a good discussion starting...

Bingo. Like the dealer that he is, Eric turned me on to it. Like the addict I am, I can't get enough of it.
There is a difference for dry fly fishing, and it's worth it.

Trouthunter "nylon" is also a great dry fly leader material and I use alot of it in the smaller sizes.

Off topic even further:
Do you use the same tippet brand that is used for the construction of the leader - either hand tied or store bought?

I try to use the same material. Even though I have gotten away from tying entire leaders by hand, mainly because of knots collecting vegetation etc., even though diameters can vary from the same company and same tippet spool, the taper will be as consistent as it can be using the same material for leader and tippet sections.

As a side note there are certain streams that I fish where I will only use fluorocarbon. I almost exclusively sight fish nymphs there and aside form the visibility thing, the place is full of submerged logs and large rocks and the fluorocarbon material giving me a big advantage in abrasion resistance. In the salt, Seaguar Fluorocarbon is all I use.

I don't get it, what makes it better than another brand?

C'Mon guys, enlighten me!

Gees, I remember a guy that had about 50 spools of that Frog brand tippet swearing that was th best.

Well in my humble opinion, that question can be answered a couple ways. But a simple answer would be a leader/tippet material that best suits your needs and wishes. For me, if we are talking about 95% of the fishing/guiding I do I want a material that will be as strong as possible, and as supple as possible for dry fly fishing. Here is where some will disagree and it comes down to personal preference (I have heard that argument about the stiff leader material for technical dry fly fishing and it makes some sense to me.)
Some materials are way more brittle than others and do not tie knots as well as others, some react differently to temperature and some have different resistances to abrasion. It's a compromise. I like a supple material for most of the fishing I do, but there are times when a stiffer material may be the way to go. I have had tippet spools (fresh) that break every time you tighten down on the knot. Very frustrating. Breaking strength is right up there with those qualities I desire. Take a look at the link that Louis posted, there is a pretty wide range in breaking strength of 6x tippet materials. As a side note I found their results on the Davy knot pretty interesting...

(emphasis added)

Yep, I always base my buying decisions on the manufacture’s / seller’s testimonials.

I get what you're saying and I understand, Eric.
A few weeks ago I was fishing Dai Riki regular tippet size 6X. Attached to it I had a gray midge tied on a size 30 large-eye hook. That set-up landed me five trout with the largest being 14 inches in clear, low water.
The main reason I fish Dai Riki tippet? Because the spools are the only ones that slide comfortably into the tippet pockets on my Orivs Tac L vest. In my world that makes perfect sense to me. That's as scientific as I get. As far as stiffness I would say Dai Riki is on the more pliable side of the scale. The word "supple" just sounds too, well you know, to me.
I know what you're thinking, Eric, knowing Bruce, I believe it.
It's true. It's on the internet so it has to be true,right!

Man! A lot has gone on here since Tim started this out...



Tony, I have always stuck to this, but I'm not sure if there is any science behind it. It is just the way I was taught. Like Eric I am fond of knotless leaders, but my streams are no where as weedy as his Letort! I like the ease of the store bought and usually buy 9' tapered to 3 or 4x and build up and down from there. I have been told that my leaders are too long, but we can probably thank George Harvey for that. :) It's a matter of what the caster can turn over...

I think Eric has told me about the Rio before, but it may have been after we had consumed too many "pops" for this old Dutchman to remember.

I guess I'm going to have to do some experimenting this year and see what's up. I hope we are not just chumps and the manufacturers in Japan aren't scamming us and making all the tippet in the same plant and just putting it in different packaging.

Sounds like I need to research a couple new knots as well. I have a friend at my fishing club who has been trying to get me to try a couple new ones...Years ago I'd sit and watch Hockey Night in Canada and practise those knots all winter...Maybe I should expand the "repertoire"...

That last word there, "repertoire" was for Brucie's sake...Just trying to expand your vocabulary there my friend...No need to "fear" words like "supple" etc...Have you met Lydia? :)

Lydia, oh Lydia, say, have you met Lydia?
Lydia the tattooed lady
She has eyes that men adore so
And a torso even more so
Lydia, oh Lydia, that encyclopedia
Lydia, the queen of tattoo
On her back is the Battle of Waterloo
Beside it the Wreck of the Hesperus, too
And proudly above waves the red, white and blue
You can learn a lot from Lydia

(la la la la la la)

When her robe is unfurled, she will show you the world
If you step up and tell her where
For a dime you can see Kankakee or Paree
Or Washington crossing the Delaware

(la la la la la la)
(la la la la la la)

Lydia, oh Lydia, say, have you met Lydia?
Lydia the tattooed lady
When her muscles start relaxin'
Up the hill comes Andrew Jackson
Lydia, oh Lydia, that encyclopedia
Lydia, the queen of tattoo
For two bits she will do a mazurka in jazz
With a view of Niagara that nobody has
And on a clear day, you can see Alcatraz
You can learn a lot from Lydia

(la la la la la la)
(la la la la la la)

Come along and see Buffalo Bill with his lasso
Just a little classic by Mendel Picasso
Here's Captain Spaulding exploring the Amazon
Here's Godiva but with her pajamas on

(la la la la la la)
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Lydia, oh Lydia, that encyclopedia
Lydia, the queen of them all
She once swept an admiral clean off his feet
The ships on her hips made his heart skip a beat
And now the old boy's in command of the fleet
For he went and married Lydia

I said Lydia
He said Lydia
I said Lydia
He said Lydia
Ole!

Speaking of blowing a hole in a thread! ;)

You gotta love Lydia.

How about the Matinee Lady?

She has Christmas tattooed on her left thigh and New Year's tattooed on her right thigh. Just hope she invites you up between holidays.

exactly (I'm assuming this is sarcasm. It doesn't always convey via the typed word). That's why it's best to use what works for you and the way you fish.

Me too. A number of folks have tested this knot with widely varying results. The knot fails regularly if one does not properly match tippet size to the hook. Loren Williams uses the knot extensively, along with the double version of it. His website tells a bit about his expertise.

http://www.lorenwflyfishes.com/welcome

Kurt posted his results on the Davy and Double Davy a while back. Based on his results, which varied considerably from those of the Flyfisherman Magazine testers', I now use the Double Davy most of the time. He performed more tests than they did on the knot, and he may understand better how to tie and seat it properly. I'll see if I can dig up the thread.

A lot has been said here already, but I'll weigh in on tippet from my experiences at Cortland and see if I can muddy this thread up a bit more.

Yes, many anglers cannot pick out the differences between the various mono and fluoro constructions that are available. Without testing the tippet on certified machines and being aware of the construction beforehand, it is pretty hard to tell the differences among them.

That being said, not many fluorocarbon's are going to be exactly the same. The breaking strength, diameter, finish, and quality of the resins used in manufacturing can all be controlled/altered. All of those play a factor in the tippets "best" use and knots that "should" be used. Some of the major manufactures of fluorocarbon have 30+ pg catalogs of all of their different offerings. From my experiences, I was lead to believe that the best quality material was offered first to companies that had the most purchasing power.

Someone mentioned that they have had spools of brand new tippet break on them every time....that is absolutely true. Besides having a lapse in QC, some tippet that is branded as "fluorocarbon" is actually a fluoro/mono blend! If that spool of "Fluoro" sits on the shelf of a shop in the sun for a month in the summer before you buy it, some of it's characteristics (such as breaking strength) will be compromised because of the mono.

Seaguar (and I believe Trout Hunter, but I may be mistaken) don't manufacture their own flouro, but they have proprietary formulas.

There, I think I did it. Now what song lyrics should I add....??