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Artistic view of a Male Pteronarcys californica (Pteronarcyidae) (Giant Salmonfly) Stonefly Adult from the Gallatin River in Montana
Salmonflies
Pteronarcys californica

The giant Salmonflies of the Western mountains are legendary for their proclivity to elicit consistent dry-fly action and ferocious strikes.

Dorsal view of a Neoleptophlebia (Leptophlebiidae) Mayfly Nymph from the Yakima River in Washington
Some characteristics from the microscope images for the tentative species id: The postero-lateral projections are found only on segment 9, not segment 8. Based on the key in Jacobus et al. (2014), it appears to key to Neoleptophlebia adoptiva or Neoleptophlebia heteronea, same as this specimen with pretty different abdominal markings. However, distinguishing between those calls for comparing the lengths of the second and third segment of the labial palp, and this one (like the other one) only seems to have two segments. So I'm stuck on them both. It's likely that the fact that they're immature nymphs stymies identification in some important way.
27" brown trout, my largest ever. It was the sub-dominant fish in its pool. After this, I hooked the bigger one, but I couldn't land it.
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Mtspinner has attached this picture to aid in identification. The message is below.
Mystery Trout?
Mtspinner
Mtspinner's profile picture
Hamilton MT

Posts: 2
Mtspinner on Sep 5, 2011September 5th, 2011, 12:56 pm EDT
I caught this trout years ago on the Price river in Utah, using a Squidy Mangler. It is the biggest that I have caught. Most are 6 inches or less. I have caught 6 or so of these fish. In taking this picture to sportshows across the country and talking with numerous fisheries biologist no one has identified it yet. I haven't made a trip back to catch one of these trout either. The creek is filled with Rainbows, but every 100 or so trout you catch one of these. They are very aggressive and have a tight wiggle when you are fighting them.
http://www.themangler.com
Adirman
Adirman's profile picture
Monticello, NY

Posts: 479
Adirman on Sep 5, 2011September 5th, 2011, 1:00 pm EDT
Looks like a croos between a brown and some kind of western species like a California Golden Trout or something.
GONZO
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681
GONZO on Sep 5, 2011September 5th, 2011, 2:06 pm EDT
It appears to be a tiger trout. From what I can gather, they are probably raised and stocked by the state of UT in the Price.
Entoman
Entoman's profile picture
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Entoman on Sep 5, 2011September 5th, 2011, 2:32 pm EDT
Mtspinner -

Wow, the big one looks like it might be a bull trout! When I was growing up as a boy we called them Dolly Varden here in CA. I have run into them occasionally in southeastern Oregon. The Metolius and Imnaha rivers have remnant populations. Needless to say, in many locales intentionally angling for them now means jail as they are protected under the Endangered Species Act. I don't think they're supposed to be in Utah, which means there may not be any local regs. You might have discovered something very precious. I hope you released it. It might be a good idea to take your evidence to the local Fish & Game headquarters and run it by one of their biologists. If they are bull trout, this population needs to be recognized and protected.

Best regards,

Kurt
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
Entoman
Entoman's profile picture
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Entoman on Sep 5, 2011September 5th, 2011, 2:42 pm EDT
Ah! I had my post open when you posted Lloyd, and only saw your thoughts afterword. Perhaps you're right since Bulls aren't supposed to be in Utah anymore, but it sure looks like one to me... Almost the spitting image of some I'd caught and released from the Imnaha several years ago.

Kurt
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
GONZO
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681
GONZO on Sep 5, 2011September 5th, 2011, 3:14 pm EDT
I doubt that it's a bull, Kurt. I don't know the Price, so I could be wrong, but I gather that browns are the only wild fish usually encountered and the state apparently stocks many rainbows and a few tigers. Once again, I tend to favor the Occam's razor explanation.
Entoman
Entoman's profile picture
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Entoman on Sep 5, 2011September 5th, 2011, 3:48 pm EDT
Yeah, you might be right. But even if there's the slightest possibility, it should be checked out. I just want to encourage him to do so since Bulls are such a precious resource.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
Jesse
Jesse's profile picture
Posts: 378
Jesse on Sep 5, 2011September 5th, 2011, 4:13 pm EDT
Whichever species it turns out to be it looks like a beautiful little fish!
Most of us fish our whole lives..not knowing its not the fish that we are after.
http://www.filingoflyfishing.com
Entoman
Entoman's profile picture
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Entoman on Sep 5, 2011September 5th, 2011, 4:48 pm EDT
BTW -
I tend to favor the Occam's razor explanation.


Ha! so true. I admit to being guilty of looking to the exotic when coming across a tough bug determination at times:) It's funny how that old monk's razor works sometimes. Show him a picture of a big red fruit, he'd think it was an apple. Show the same picture to an Inca priest on the other side of the world, he'd swear it was a tomato.

However, not to be argumentative (well, maybe a little:)) check out http://www.flatheadlake.name/fishing/bull_trout.htm. Most of the riverine examples I've seen are finer spotted and more olivaceous, but if you enlarge Mtspinner's photo and compare with the warning posters indicators, you will have to admit.... Well, just let me know what you think.:) Another hint: Notice how wide and flat the head is between the eyes.

Regards,

Kurt
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
GONZO
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681
GONZO on Sep 5, 2011September 5th, 2011, 4:59 pm EDT
Well, just let me know what you think.:)

OK...well I'm still not buying it, Kurt. What I see on that trout's sides are the extended broken vermiculations of a tiger trout (and the ragged bent dorsal of a stocker), not the spots of a bull.
Entoman
Entoman's profile picture
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Entoman on Sep 5, 2011September 5th, 2011, 5:09 pm EDT
No sale, huh?:)

I suppose you wouldn't buy my explanation for the fins as a combination of abuse and picture distortion? Bull trout often have beat up pectorals due to their habits of bottom hugging. I suppose you also have an explanation for the wide flattened area between the eyes? Like I said you might be right, but I wouldn't want to be checked by a western game warden with that guy in my creel.:):)
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
GONZO
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681
GONZO on Sep 5, 2011September 5th, 2011, 5:26 pm EDT
I suppose you wouldn't buy my explanation for the fins as a combination of abuse and picture distortion?

Nope...at least not unless you're going to argue that bulls spend a lot of time swimming upside down.

I suppose you also have an explanation for the wide flattened area between the eyes?

I only see one eye. Are we looking at the same picture?

Like I said you might be right, but I wouldn't want to be checked by a western game warden with that guy in my creel.:):)

Not something I'd have to worry about. If it was in my creel, I'd have to eat the damn thing, and I have no taste for stockers. ;)
Entoman
Entoman's profile picture
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Entoman on Sep 5, 2011September 5th, 2011, 5:33 pm EDT
I only see one eye. Are we looking at the same picture?


Ha! Very good. I was referring to the area between the eyes (but you already knew that). I sense some payback coming from Spence if he ever reads this exchange! :):)
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
Entoman
Entoman's profile picture
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Entoman on Sep 5, 2011September 5th, 2011, 5:40 pm EDT
Wait a doggone minute... Swimming upside down? Broken vermiculations? The dorsal fin is in fine shape and "I don't see no stinkin' vermiculations."

Are you talking about that little squid in the top photo? I'm referring to his signature photo!:):):)
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
GONZO
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681
GONZO on Sep 5, 2011September 5th, 2011, 5:55 pm EDT
Are you talking about that little squid in the top photo? I'm referring to his signature photo!:):):)

Yes, Kurt. I am talking about the photo labeled "mystery trout," which I assumed was the "Unidentified trout." But, I'd agree that his signature photo is of a bull. ;)

I sense some payback coming from Spence if he ever reads this exchange! :):)

Boy, you've got that right, pal! :) :)
Entoman
Entoman's profile picture
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Entoman on Sep 5, 2011September 5th, 2011, 6:13 pm EDT
HaHaHa! And I was trying sooo hard not to inpune your fish knowledge with a "You eastern boys don't know what the hell you're talking about" comment. Ha Ha! :):)
I caught this trout years ago on the Price river in Utah, using a Squidy Mangler. It is the biggest that I have caught. Most are 6 inches or less.
It's his first post and with the hardware hanging from it's mouth, this is the fish I thought he was referring to. Now I see Mtspinner is from Montana. Hey MT, we're not all thick here, just me. If Spence ever sees this I'm doomed...

Where's my bottle of whiskey?
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
Oldredbarn
Oldredbarn's profile picture
Novi, MI

Posts: 2600
Oldredbarn on Sep 5, 2011September 5th, 2011, 6:22 pm EDT
I sense some payback coming from Spence if he ever reads this exchange! :):)


Yo no commento, hombres! When Spence sees a snowball rolling down a snowy hill he knows enough to stand aside. ;)

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
GONZO
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681
GONZO on Sep 5, 2011September 5th, 2011, 6:24 pm EDT
It's his first post and with the hardware hanging from it's mouth, this is the fish I thought he was referring to.

And you skipped right over Jesse's comment about it being "a beautiful little fish." Understandable, I suppose, considering the size of fish that Jesse's been posting lately! :)

Where's my bottle of whiskey?

I think we could both use a drink after that exchange!
Oldredbarn
Oldredbarn's profile picture
Novi, MI

Posts: 2600
Oldredbarn on Sep 5, 2011September 5th, 2011, 6:44 pm EDT
I think we could both use a drink after that exchange!


I just love this site!!! :)

I had my own problems boys, bug problems...My wife was screaming at me to nab some bug crawling across her couch...While she was going on she was also telling me not to squish it on her yellow couch...Tony would of been proud of my near surgical precision! The couch was saved!

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
Oldredbarn
Oldredbarn's profile picture
Novi, MI

Posts: 2600
Oldredbarn on Sep 5, 2011September 5th, 2011, 6:54 pm EDT
considering the size of fish that Jesse's been posting lately! :)


Not to start this snowball on its way back uphill...I've been thinking about these Brown trout of Jess's...I'm convinced that its's just the same one over and over again...It must be a mount and he carts it around from stream to stream...That's not the half of it. I'm also sure that it's the same fish that Matt is holding in his profile pic...They are in this together...Matt is just holding it in the other direction...

Hmmm...

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood

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