Artistic view of a Male Pteronarcys californica (Pteronarcyidae) (Giant Salmonfly) Stonefly Adult from the Gallatin River in Montana

Salmonflies
Pteronarcys californica

The giant Salmonflies of the Western mountains are legendary for their proclivity to elicit consistent dry-fly action and ferocious strikes.

Looking across Island Lake toward the Titcomb Basin—one of the popular crown jewels of the Wind River Mountains

From Island Lake in Wyoming

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Female Hydropsyche (Spotted Sedge) Caddisfly Adult Female Hydropsyche (Spotted Sedge) Caddisfly Adult

Lateral view of a Female Hydropsyche (Hydropsychidae) (Spotted Sedge) Caddisfly Adult from the Columbia River in Washington

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27" brown trout, my largest ever. It was the sub-dominant fish in its pool. After this, I hooked the bigger one, but I couldn't land it.

Troutnut is a project started in 2003 by salmonid ecologist Jason "Troutnut" Neuswanger to help anglers and fly tyers unabashedly embrace the entomological side of the sport. Learn more about Troutnut or support the project for an enhanced experience here.

Unidentified trout, Page 2

Mtspinner has attached this picture to aid in identification. The message is below.

Entoman

Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604

Entoman on Sep 5, 2011September 5th, 2011, 6:55 pm EDT

And you skipped right over Jesse's comment about it being "a beautiful little fish."

I think I was skipping right out of the gate.

I think we could both use a drink after that exchange!

Abalutely... (hickup). I see Spence found us.....

"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman

GONZO
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681

GONZO on Sep 5, 2011September 5th, 2011, 7:01 pm EDT

I'm also sure that it's the same fish that Matt is holding in his profile pic...They are in this together...Matt is just holding it in the other direction...

You could be onto something, Spence. :)

Entoman

Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604

Entoman on Sep 5, 2011September 5th, 2011, 7:53 pm EDT

Hey Spence,

I think you're right! Remember not a peep from Matt when Jesse disclosed the location of the honey hole in front of his cabin on the river? They're in cahoots! (Whew.... glad the focus is off our brilliant contributions to today's forum, Lloyd). By the way Spence, has anyone ever told you that you are a scholar and a gentleman?

"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman

Oldredbarn

Novi, MI

Posts: 2600

Oldredbarn on Sep 6, 2011September 6th, 2011, 8:22 am EDT

By the way Spence, has anyone ever told you that you are a scholar and a gentleman?

No...I don't ever recall hearing this before...I grew up here in Detroit. If one possessed such qualities one kept them to themselves. ;)

Spence

"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood

Cutbow

Post Falls, Idaho

Posts: 38

Cutbow on Sep 6, 2011September 6th, 2011, 11:23 am EDT

It is a Tiger trout. Not a Bull trout. Tigers are a cross between a Brown and a Brook trout. They produce sterile offspring and do occure in the wild from time to time. However, Washington fish and game is one dept that plants them in certain fisheries for managment perposes because they aggressivly feed on perch or what ever eles the're trying to kill. The planted ones are of course more common then the wild ones. I wonder if Utah F&G plants them?

"Once you catch your first fish on a fly you won't care about any other kind of fishing!"

Entoman

Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604

Entoman on Sep 6, 2011September 6th, 2011, 11:40 am EDT

Thanks John. (Geez, it only gets worse:):))

"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman

Cutbow

Post Falls, Idaho

Posts: 38

Cutbow on Sep 6, 2011September 6th, 2011, 11:45 am EDT

I pulled this off of Utah's F&G website just now: : "Tiger trout are quite piscivorous (fish eaters) from an early age. They seem to be more willing to hunt for prey in shallower waters than many other trout subspecies are. Fisheries managers hope that tiger trout will keep Utah chubs from outcompeting and overrunning other game fish in many of Utah's reservoirs, such as Joe's Valley and now also in Scofield Reservoir, as well as many others."

I wish Idaho F&G would do the same thing so Idaho would'nt suck anymore! :)

"Once you catch your first fish on a fly you won't care about any other kind of fishing!"

Entoman

Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604

Entoman on Sep 6, 2011September 6th, 2011, 12:02 pm EDT

Let's hope. Looks like I'll be out there for a couple of weeks with your Dad to survey the poor fishing with you at the end of the month (after four days on Fall River). Maybe we can run across a small trout or two. Any bull trout? I'd love to see what they look like.

Caution: Read the thread from the beginning. You started from page two and missed the fun. I'm losing ribs and my face hurts.:)

"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman

Mtspinner

Hamilton MT

Posts: 2

Mtspinner on Sep 7, 2011September 7th, 2011, 4:57 am EDT

I live on the bitterroot river and catch bull trout all the time. In fact I caught a 21.5 incher a few weeks ago on the east fork bitterroot. (my profile picture) This is no doubt not a bull trout. They don't even look similiar. These spots are like leopard spots. Tiger trout have worm markings. I lived and fished in Utah for most of my life. I haven't ever seen a bull trout there.

Do you have anything else?

http://www.themangler.com

Entoman

Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604

Entoman on Sep 7, 2011September 7th, 2011, 9:46 am EDT

Hi Mt -

Nobody thought the little guy was a bull trout. The bull trout controversy was over your profile picture I mistakenly thought was the subject of your inquiry. Most of the humorous exchange (mostly at my expense) is on page 1. The trout you are actually asking about is a planted tiger trout. As explained very well by Gonzo and Cutbow, they are used by Utah F & G as a fisheries management tool. The idea is to apparently control rough fish populations, with their own demise to follow once the job is done as they can't reproduce.

Regards,

Kurt

"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman

Cutbow

Post Falls, Idaho

Posts: 38

Cutbow on Sep 7, 2011September 7th, 2011, 10:00 am EDT

"These spots are like leopard spots. Tiger trout have worm markings. I lived and fished in Utah for most of my life. Do you have anything else?"

I once caught a trout that looked like a cross between a cutthroat and a brookie. I'll never know for sure because i released it and did'nt have a camera. So the question is can all salmoniods hybrid? Or just some?

Leopard like spots or blotches don't preclude it from being a tiger trout. There is a wide variance as to how tiger trout can look. That being said of course it could be a leopard trout.

"Once you catch your first fish on a fly you won't care about any other kind of fishing!"

Oldredbarn

Novi, MI

Posts: 2600

Oldredbarn on Sep 7, 2011September 7th, 2011, 10:42 am EDT

Come on John! Can't you see your uncle wants this thread to "disintegrate" and go away?! Or mission is to make it last as long as we possibly can so we can watch him splashing in the shallow water there as if hooked to a stringer...:)

When it comes to these so-called "course-fish" what's the problem? Doesn't their being there offer the trout something to eat? Seems that the local preds would keep the population down...

Now back to the bull vs Tiger trout...We get some naturally occurring Tiger's in the Au Sable, but in all my years of fishing it I've yet to hook one.

I think we need to work on your uncle's prescription so he can make out the difference between a bull & a Tiger...What ya say??? ;)

Spence

Cutbow

Post Falls, Idaho

Posts: 38

Cutbow on Sep 7, 2011September 7th, 2011, 1:44 pm EDT

I know of more then one fishery in Idaho that has been destroyed by the planting of trash fish (ie. crappie, perch, bluegills, ect...). These fish are ambush predators that just out compete the cruising native trout by eating every aquatic insect in site. And thats not to mention all the bait mongers they attract! The thing I wonder is how well do Tiger trout really help with this problem?

"Once you catch your first fish on a fly you won't care about any other kind of fishing!"

GONZO
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681

GONZO on Sep 7, 2011September 7th, 2011, 3:24 pm EDT

Leopard like spots or blotches don't preclude it from being a tiger trout. There is a wide variance as to how tiger trout can look.

Exactly right, John. In early discussion of the tiger trout hybrids (Day 1887), the name "leopard trout" was used to describe the female brook X male brown cross, and "zebra trout" was used to describe the male brook X female brown cross. As far as I know, only the latter cross is used in hatcheries (the former cross has even greater viability problems), but leopardlike markings can be expressed in that cross as well.

Do you have anything else?

No...unless you'd like me to make something up. ;)

Entoman

Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604

Entoman on Sep 7, 2011September 7th, 2011, 11:09 pm EDT

John -

These fish are ambush predators that just out compete the cruising native trout by eating every aquatic insect in site

Yes, especially our beloved callibaetis hatches that have been decimated in so many locales. You should have seen Bidwell and Martis in the years before you were born.

"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman

Jmd123

Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2474

Jmd123 on Sep 9, 2011September 9th, 2011, 5:49 am EDT

"...trash fish (ie. crappie, perch, bluegills, ect...)..."

One man's trash is another man's treasure...although I agree that these fish can screw up an ecosystem in which they don't belong. And they don't belong in Idaho or anywhere else out west. But then again, do trout belong in Missouri? Or Texas??? Do brown or rainbow trout belong here in Michigan? Not to mention chinook, coho, and pink salmon? What about the extinct Michigan grayling? Ah, yes, it gets complicated...Robert Traver, a.k.a. John Voelker, considered brown trout to be a "trash fish" compared to his beloved brook trout. And I certainly considered the common carp of the Huron River to be "trash fish", while the Chinese medical students that lived in my apartment complex felt right at home! And some of my fellow fly flingers there threw mulberry imitations at them on 8-weights...

Jonathon

No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...

Goose
Posts: 77

Goose on Sep 9, 2011September 9th, 2011, 6:01 am EDT

Well, just let me know what you think.:)

OK...well I'm still not buying it, Kurt. What I see on that trout's sides are the extended broken vermiculations of a tiger trout (and the ragged bent dorsal of a stocker), not the spots of a bull.

Seriously,Gonzo, vermiculations?
Goose, Bruce

GONZO
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681

GONZO on Sep 9, 2011September 9th, 2011, 7:01 am EDT

Sorry, Bruce. Translation: "them squiggly thangs"

Goose
Posts: 77

Goose on Sep 9, 2011September 9th, 2011, 7:46 am EDT

Sorry, Bruce. Translation: "them squiggly thangs"

Ha! Ha! now you are speaking my language, Gonzo.

Bruce,Goose, Lastchance

Cutbow

Post Falls, Idaho

Posts: 38

Cutbow on Sep 9, 2011September 9th, 2011, 1:17 pm EDT

"One man's trash is another man's treasure..."

I could'nt agree more Jonathon!:) I hope everybody understands I meant "trash" as a friendly jab with tongue and cheek. You make good points.

"Once you catch your first fish on a fly you won't care about any other kind of fishing!"