Hex Mayflies
Hexagenia limbata
The famous nocturnal Hex hatch of the Midwest (and a few other lucky locations) stirs to the surface mythically large brown trout that only touch streamers for the rest of the year.
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It's only barely visible in one of my pictures, but I confirmed under the microscope that this one has a prosternal horn and the antennae are mid-way between the eyes and front of the head capsule.
I'm calling this one Pycnopsyche, but it's a bit perplexing. It seems to key definitively to at least Couplet 8 of the Key to Genera of Limnephilidae Larvae. That narrows it down to three genera, and the case seems wrong for the other two. The case looks right for Pycnopsyche, and it fits one of the key characteristics: "Abdominal sternum II without chloride epithelium and abdominal segment IX with only single seta on each side of dorsal sclerite." However, the characteristic "metanotal sa1 sclerites not fused, although often contiguous" does not seem to fit well. Those sclerites sure look fused to me, although I can make out a thin groove in the touching halves in the anterior half under the microscope. Perhaps this is a regional variation.
The only species of Pycnopsyche documented in Washington state is Pycnopsyche guttifera, and the colors and markings around the head of this specimen seem to match very well a specimen of that species from Massachusetts on Bugguide. So I am placing it in that species for now.
Whatever species this is, I photographed another specimen of seemingly the same species from the same spot a couple months later.
I'm calling this one Pycnopsyche, but it's a bit perplexing. It seems to key definitively to at least Couplet 8 of the Key to Genera of Limnephilidae Larvae. That narrows it down to three genera, and the case seems wrong for the other two. The case looks right for Pycnopsyche, and it fits one of the key characteristics: "Abdominal sternum II without chloride epithelium and abdominal segment IX with only single seta on each side of dorsal sclerite." However, the characteristic "metanotal sa1 sclerites not fused, although often contiguous" does not seem to fit well. Those sclerites sure look fused to me, although I can make out a thin groove in the touching halves in the anterior half under the microscope. Perhaps this is a regional variation.
The only species of Pycnopsyche documented in Washington state is Pycnopsyche guttifera, and the colors and markings around the head of this specimen seem to match very well a specimen of that species from Massachusetts on Bugguide. So I am placing it in that species for now.
Whatever species this is, I photographed another specimen of seemingly the same species from the same spot a couple months later.
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Stokes on Oct 20, 2013October 20th, 2013, 2:17 pm EDT
Okay,I said in the other thread I would have more,so here goes.As I said,I really didnt get a chance to start hitting the streams till early July.I spent 2 or 3 days a week on numerous creeks,until Oct 15th,I didnt see one hatch.Not one!The closest I came to anything was one day having lunch I looked down at the rocks I was sitting near had what appeared to be live nymphs that crawled up.A closer look and I could see they were husks.I know from what I've heard that its best to use nymphs when nothing is on the surface,but I dont really like nymphing,well not really"dont like"as much as have trouble using them.I have trouble picking the line up for the next cast when my entire leader and tippet are so far underwater.Any tips on this aspect?
Al514 on Oct 20, 2013October 20th, 2013, 2:50 pm EDT
Stokes....like the casting thread, you'll get just as many varied responses on this topic.
No hatches - this could be the result of a number of things! Really hard to pin down the cause from the info you've given.
My recommendation - Next time nothing is rising for you, take baby steps with nymphing. Tie a piece of tippet (can be anywhere from 6 inches to 2ft) from either the eye of the dry fly hook or the bend of the dry fly hook, then tie a nymph of your choice on the free end. Your dry fly will now double as a strike indicator (as long as it can support the nymph you choose) and something the fish can take. This "dry and dropper" method is a great way to prospect around streams when nothing is going on.
As far as keeping your line in a good position for your next cast - I'm not sure what the streams you're fishing are like, but high stick nymphing is common on smaller streams. High stick nymphing pretty much keeps the line off the water completely by raising the rod above your head, leaving a little bit of the leader (if any) on the water and the indicator (if you choose to use an indicator). Don't raise the rod too high though, you'll still need to be able to set the hook. There isn't much distance to the cast and little line management is necessary. This technique is generally used when working upstream.
Hope this helps.
No hatches - this could be the result of a number of things! Really hard to pin down the cause from the info you've given.
My recommendation - Next time nothing is rising for you, take baby steps with nymphing. Tie a piece of tippet (can be anywhere from 6 inches to 2ft) from either the eye of the dry fly hook or the bend of the dry fly hook, then tie a nymph of your choice on the free end. Your dry fly will now double as a strike indicator (as long as it can support the nymph you choose) and something the fish can take. This "dry and dropper" method is a great way to prospect around streams when nothing is going on.
As far as keeping your line in a good position for your next cast - I'm not sure what the streams you're fishing are like, but high stick nymphing is common on smaller streams. High stick nymphing pretty much keeps the line off the water completely by raising the rod above your head, leaving a little bit of the leader (if any) on the water and the indicator (if you choose to use an indicator). Don't raise the rod too high though, you'll still need to be able to set the hook. There isn't much distance to the cast and little line management is necessary. This technique is generally used when working upstream.
Hope this helps.
Crepuscular on Oct 20, 2013October 20th, 2013, 3:07 pm EDT
OK, well assuming you are fishing in the NE, and that the streams you were fishing actually have the bugs (that's a big assumption), from July until the end of August and even into September "hatches" tend to be either really early or late in the day. so if you weren't there at first light or right at dark you may have missed them. Also mid to late summer is not exactly peak time for many trout stream mayflies, caddis and stoneflies here in the east. Basically you will have Tricos in the early AM, and then Cahills and maybe some late Hexes and Whiteflies in the evenings and that's about it for mayflies. There may be some days when you will see some caddis in the evenings as well. I suppose you could throw Isonychia in there as well in the mayfly category.
Not sure about the nymphing issue other than your nymphing technique may need some refinement. I would need more info like what rod/line are you using, what type of water are you nymphing would be two good starting points. with most of the nymphing that I do most of my leader is above the water.
Not sure about the nymphing issue other than your nymphing technique may need some refinement. I would need more info like what rod/line are you using, what type of water are you nymphing would be two good starting points. with most of the nymphing that I do most of my leader is above the water.
PaulRoberts on Oct 20, 2013October 20th, 2013, 3:50 pm EDT
For summer aquatic insect activity (the "hatches" you read about) you'll need to switch to early AM (especially) and possibly late evening (or better, at night). You can also look for colder water by either switching to predominately groundwater fed streams or sections, or move up towards the headwaters. Spring is still springing at the springs. Also, aquatic "hatches" aren't the only game in town on trout streams.
Sounds like you might be describing Isonychia mayflies emerging. A great nymphing opportunity and for good fish too. You can fish an active nymph, wet or small dark streamer downstream for this activity which may be easier to start with compared to upstream nymphing. At least you can remain in contact easier.
As to nymphing, especially upstream, your leader should not be submerged. There are methods that employ this, esp when dredging deep, but you are generally better off not for normal (shallow) depths. What "fishes" is the tippet, weight and fly. The leader is part of the delivery system along with the fly-line. The fly-line should not be your strike indicator -it's too far away, too removed from the action.
I keep my leader greased and will change it after a few hours to keep it riding high. Speed control is almost everything in subsurface fishing and a drowned leader is at the mercy of the current -in 3 dimensions.
Sounds like you might be describing Isonychia mayflies emerging. A great nymphing opportunity and for good fish too. You can fish an active nymph, wet or small dark streamer downstream for this activity which may be easier to start with compared to upstream nymphing. At least you can remain in contact easier.
As to nymphing, especially upstream, your leader should not be submerged. There are methods that employ this, esp when dredging deep, but you are generally better off not for normal (shallow) depths. What "fishes" is the tippet, weight and fly. The leader is part of the delivery system along with the fly-line. The fly-line should not be your strike indicator -it's too far away, too removed from the action.
I keep my leader greased and will change it after a few hours to keep it riding high. Speed control is almost everything in subsurface fishing and a drowned leader is at the mercy of the current -in 3 dimensions.
Stokes on Oct 21, 2013October 21st, 2013, 6:48 am EDT
Okay,I see some of my mistakes and misconceptions about nymphing.For background,I was fishing very small headwaters and tributary type streams.On the Esopus,which I spent a lot of days on,I only fished the "main" stretch,below the tunnel twice.One day on the Jansen Kill,otherwise nothing much more than 20ft wide,one to three ft deep,with the occasional surprisingly deep holes.I rarely got on the water before 9am as most days I just got up and decided to go,rarely made plans in advance (aint retirement grand),and all these waters was an hour plus to about 2 hrs away.Never fished after dark,mostly because even with my glasses,I have enough trouble tying on a fly in bright mid-day light.I used public access sites listed by the DEC,but surprisingly only saw 2 others fishing all summer.But back to fishing.Any time I tried a nymph,I used it exactly as I would have a dry,all upstream casts and drift down.As to my rod,it was mainly the 6ft 2wt Clearwater with WF2F Orvis Superfine and occassionally my 7 1/2ft 3wt with WF3F.Leaders I experimented with a few and settled on a braided leader,I have a few 7ft,9ft and 12ft,I believe they all taper down to 2x.I like them because they dont curl,even with a leader straightener,I could never get the curl out of the mono and florocarbon leaders.I also feel they cast better with short line,I could cast that leader with about 3ft of fly line out for real close casts.I mainly used dries because I figure if a fish is feeding in 2 feet of water,he's gonna see the surface even if he doesnt want to.I understand how a fish will focus on the top when there are a lot of targets,but I would think if he sees something on the surface,he'll go for it.Heres a thing I find funny.It is well known and widely accepted that these fish are smart and selective,but when I look at some of these dry flies we use and then compare them to the flies they immitate,I gotta think these fish are dumber than we think.Theres a hundred dead flies floating by and they pick the hairy looking thing with the hook?Thanks for the replies so far,hope to hear more.
Falsifly on Oct 21, 2013October 21st, 2013, 9:50 am EDT
Heres a thing I find funny.It is well known and widely accepted that these fish are smart and selective,but when I look at some of these dry flies we use and then compare them to the flies they immitate,I gotta think these fish are dumber than we think.Theres a hundred dead flies floating by and they pick the hairy looking thing with the hook?
Well this certainly got me to thinking about "The Most Interesting Quote" list
Falsifly
When asked what I just caught that monster on I showed him. He put on his magnifiers and said, "I can't believe they can see that."
When asked what I just caught that monster on I showed him. He put on his magnifiers and said, "I can't believe they can see that."
Falsifly on Oct 21, 2013October 21st, 2013, 12:32 pm EDT
On second thought, maybe I could be of a little more help.
Stokes, you have to put yourself into the trout’s shoes (or is that fins?). Imagine you’re sitting at a free all-you-can-eat-buffet, but in this case it’s more like a conveyor belt where the food is moving by in a somewhat orderly fashion. However today’s special is brussel spouts and brussel sprouts only. I suppose you could scrounge around on the floor and pick up scraps that have fallen but that would take effort, it’s much easier to just pick from the sprouts moving by. Now as a trout you gorge yourself on the abundance of free easy pickings because you never know what tomorrow will bring. However, if a trout is anything like you and me…. (debatable, so I’ll leave that up to Kurt and the rest)…. we would tire of eating the same thing over and over again until gorged. Well I can think of a few things I wouldn’t tire of but then my arteries would clog and I might have to consult “gutcutter” for a “roto rooter” job. Enter the angler casting upon the free-all-you-can-eat-baffet/conveyor belt from afar so as to not interrupt dinner… (imagine, if you will, the ill timed waitress asking how everything is while you have a mouth full)… with a fake brussel sprout. That would be like a chunk of cauliflower passing in front of you and me. I ain’t takin it. That is until I’m sick and tired of brussel sprouts and anything other than what looks like a brussel sprout I’m scarfing up. You see, understanding this trout fishing stuff just isn’t that tough.
Stokes, you have to put yourself into the trout’s shoes (or is that fins?). Imagine you’re sitting at a free all-you-can-eat-buffet, but in this case it’s more like a conveyor belt where the food is moving by in a somewhat orderly fashion. However today’s special is brussel spouts and brussel sprouts only. I suppose you could scrounge around on the floor and pick up scraps that have fallen but that would take effort, it’s much easier to just pick from the sprouts moving by. Now as a trout you gorge yourself on the abundance of free easy pickings because you never know what tomorrow will bring. However, if a trout is anything like you and me…. (debatable, so I’ll leave that up to Kurt and the rest)…. we would tire of eating the same thing over and over again until gorged. Well I can think of a few things I wouldn’t tire of but then my arteries would clog and I might have to consult “gutcutter” for a “roto rooter” job. Enter the angler casting upon the free-all-you-can-eat-baffet/conveyor belt from afar so as to not interrupt dinner… (imagine, if you will, the ill timed waitress asking how everything is while you have a mouth full)… with a fake brussel sprout. That would be like a chunk of cauliflower passing in front of you and me. I ain’t takin it. That is until I’m sick and tired of brussel sprouts and anything other than what looks like a brussel sprout I’m scarfing up. You see, understanding this trout fishing stuff just isn’t that tough.
Falsifly
When asked what I just caught that monster on I showed him. He put on his magnifiers and said, "I can't believe they can see that."
When asked what I just caught that monster on I showed him. He put on his magnifiers and said, "I can't believe they can see that."
Oldredbarn on Oct 21, 2013October 21st, 2013, 2:48 pm EDT
You see, understanding this trout fishing stuff just isn’t that tough.
Allan,
Say what?! :) I thought I was the only one here that went twenty miles out of the way just to get to the next corner. ;)
You must be on a diet my friend and craving some of that, "not so good for you stuff", and can't look at another brussel sprout...I feel your pain!
Selectivity is not always the problem...IMHO it takes a ton of bugs to trip that switch in an obsessive compulsive sort of way that only a trout and we humans can pull off.
IMHO, again, I suggest, first...Always listen to Mr. Roberts. He will only steer you wrong when he thinks you are getting anywhere near his fishing holes. :)
2nd, Return to the casting thread and work on the "Presentation"...Trout are suckers for a natural, properly presented, bug.
3rd...I'm surprised that Eric didn't tell you to tie on a Letort Cricket, or maybe an ant. Mr Salmo loves him an ant or two. Sometimes you just have to force feed the little piglets...Mr Neal will chime in that a sized 10 Madsen Skunk placed properly in the feeding lanes seldom gets refused.
If indeed it were Iso's, I feel for you and return to Mr. Robert's advice again...What size were those "shucks"...Mayflies for sure? Iso's are known to migrate to the edges of the stream and rocks to emerge...If you see rather slashing rises it could be the trout chasing them because they swim like minnows and "triggering" more than selectivity is what I think is going on...All that activity in front of the fish can really drive him crazy and he'll forget just about everything save the feeding frenzy.
Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively
"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
Crepuscular on Oct 21, 2013October 21st, 2013, 3:05 pm EDT
Somebody get Allan a cheeseburger!
Yes I could suggest a big old carpenter ant or a ground beetle tied on a long shank #14 hook as a more than suitable tidbit for those Catskill brown trout. It certainly has worked for me more than a couple times. Actually during the summer terrestrial fishing is my bread and butter here in Central PA. Ants, beetles, and I really like a big black cricket more than anything while prospecting likely looking spots in faster water. Forget about delicate presentations and smack that sucker down and see who comes to eat! Oh and the Iso's, I've seen fish come from the next hollow over to chase one of those imitations swung (is that a word?) across a fast run. I tend to move a lot and cover more water during the summertime. If I don't get any interest in a few casts to a likely spot I'm movin' on. If you find a sipper along a bank, dump an ant just upstream and I'd put money on the fact that he's going to at least take a look at it, if not slurp in it.
Yes I could suggest a big old carpenter ant or a ground beetle tied on a long shank #14 hook as a more than suitable tidbit for those Catskill brown trout. It certainly has worked for me more than a couple times. Actually during the summer terrestrial fishing is my bread and butter here in Central PA. Ants, beetles, and I really like a big black cricket more than anything while prospecting likely looking spots in faster water. Forget about delicate presentations and smack that sucker down and see who comes to eat! Oh and the Iso's, I've seen fish come from the next hollow over to chase one of those imitations swung (is that a word?) across a fast run. I tend to move a lot and cover more water during the summertime. If I don't get any interest in a few casts to a likely spot I'm movin' on. If you find a sipper along a bank, dump an ant just upstream and I'd put money on the fact that he's going to at least take a look at it, if not slurp in it.
Falsifly on Oct 21, 2013October 21st, 2013, 7:48 pm EDT
I've seen fish come from the next hollow over to chase one of those imitations swung (is that a word?)
Swung, swing, swang, in the trout fishing vernacular is there a difference?
Falsifly
When asked what I just caught that monster on I showed him. He put on his magnifiers and said, "I can't believe they can see that."
When asked what I just caught that monster on I showed him. He put on his magnifiers and said, "I can't believe they can see that."
Entoman on Oct 21, 2013October 21st, 2013, 10:04 pm EDT
Even though you may have swung a fly there first, it was the fish that swang on your leader that tempted me to swing my fly in your spot.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
Stokes on Oct 22, 2013October 22nd, 2013, 7:18 am EDT
cant respond right now,my brain is a bit foggy,got knocked off my bike yesterday afternoon,was in the hosp till after midnight,i'm not too bad,broken left hand and dislocated same side shoulder.belly full of oxy's so putting together more than one word at a time is a chore,not to mention trying to remember what i just read.will get back to it when my brain clears up.
Crepuscular on Oct 22, 2013October 22nd, 2013, 7:36 am EDT
Jeez Carl! I'm sorry to hear that! That sounds bad enough to me. Get better sir. I hope it wasn't your casting arm ;)
Oldredbarn on Oct 22, 2013October 22nd, 2013, 8:03 am EDT
Even though you may have swung a fly there first, it was the fish that swang on your leader that tempted me to swing my fly in your spot.
Here is an entry from, "The American Language" by H. L. Entoman :)
Carl...Get better! While I was out west my brother-in-law was smacked on his Ducati by a woman who was not paying attention...Broke his leg and they took out his spleen. Rest up.
I dropped my Norton in Ann Arbor one evening back in 1978...Just another brick in the road to my divorce. ;) My youth and speed, not a good combo! I feel your pain.
Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively
"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
Al514 on Oct 22, 2013October 22nd, 2013, 8:05 am EDT
Hope you experience a quick recovery.
Enjoy those pain meds!
Enjoy those pain meds!
Entoman on Oct 22, 2013October 22nd, 2013, 9:52 am EDT
Get better, Carl.
Yeah, Ima tinkin' "swang" is bad English wit a twang.:)
Yeah, Ima tinkin' "swang" is bad English wit a twang.:)
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
Stokes on Oct 22, 2013October 22nd, 2013, 11:58 am EDT
thanks guys.been thru far worse in my younger,speedier days.funny,i bought the harley figuring my age and reflexes called for less rocketeering and i get whacked standing still,go figure.luckilly,not my casting hand,right now all i have out of the cast is half a pinky and ring finger,pretty much useless left hand.
Oldredbarn on Oct 22, 2013October 22nd, 2013, 5:06 pm EDT
Carl...You should get yourself one of those mini casting rods with the yarn on it...Practice, practice, practice. Something to do between re-hab. :)
You got a Harley!?
I grew up around motorcycles...With all the distractions these days that folks think they need in a car, as opposed to actually driving the damn thing, I would be reluctant to ride...I'm afraid enough with all the metal around me as it is.
Back in the 70's I rode with a friend who had a 750 BMW. It sounded like a Singer sewing machine...When we came to traffic lights he would hold back a bit behind me to listen to that baritone growl of my 850 Commando. :) He used to carry ball bearings and when we got cut off he would pass the offender and toss them up in the air...They would come down on their windshields. I once saw him pull up along side someone and put his foot in their door leaving a nasty dent.
I'm telling you about this Carl in an attempt to bring a smile to your face...You've been through enough. I wish I had a picture of my friend riding that bike...He wore an old helmut and a pair of actual ski googles stretched out on it. Think Klinger from Hogan's Heroes. It didn't hurt that he had a German last name.
My stepfather ran a bike shop before I knew him. Triumphs & Cushman motor-scooters. We used to buy bikes in a basket from guys who thought they knew what they were doing. When they finally gave up we would buy the remains from them for a song and re-build them...
We re-built a Sportster one time and I decided to take it out for a test drive. It didn't have a license plate on it, and I was just shy of being old enough to drive...I was screaming through the neighborhood on a nice summer day when I came to a four way stop and to my left was a police car, with their windows down...I thought I was screwed! I waved them on, being the gentleman I was, and I pulled right in behind them so they couldn't see I was plate-less...I followed them to my street and made a right and opened her up! I still don't know how I got away with that...:)
Heal quickly buddy!
Spence
You got a Harley!?
I grew up around motorcycles...With all the distractions these days that folks think they need in a car, as opposed to actually driving the damn thing, I would be reluctant to ride...I'm afraid enough with all the metal around me as it is.
Back in the 70's I rode with a friend who had a 750 BMW. It sounded like a Singer sewing machine...When we came to traffic lights he would hold back a bit behind me to listen to that baritone growl of my 850 Commando. :) He used to carry ball bearings and when we got cut off he would pass the offender and toss them up in the air...They would come down on their windshields. I once saw him pull up along side someone and put his foot in their door leaving a nasty dent.
I'm telling you about this Carl in an attempt to bring a smile to your face...You've been through enough. I wish I had a picture of my friend riding that bike...He wore an old helmut and a pair of actual ski googles stretched out on it. Think Klinger from Hogan's Heroes. It didn't hurt that he had a German last name.
My stepfather ran a bike shop before I knew him. Triumphs & Cushman motor-scooters. We used to buy bikes in a basket from guys who thought they knew what they were doing. When they finally gave up we would buy the remains from them for a song and re-build them...
We re-built a Sportster one time and I decided to take it out for a test drive. It didn't have a license plate on it, and I was just shy of being old enough to drive...I was screaming through the neighborhood on a nice summer day when I came to a four way stop and to my left was a police car, with their windows down...I thought I was screwed! I waved them on, being the gentleman I was, and I pulled right in behind them so they couldn't see I was plate-less...I followed them to my street and made a right and opened her up! I still don't know how I got away with that...:)
Heal quickly buddy!
Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively
"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
PaulRoberts on Oct 22, 2013October 22nd, 2013, 6:18 pm EDT
Sorry to hear, Carl. You can at least look forward to some good reading while you recuperate. Ditto the yarn rod. Maybe it'll pass muster for PT?
Stokes on Oct 23, 2013October 23rd, 2013, 11:58 am EDT
I was actually looking at those practice yarn rigs last winter,are they any good?Anybody here ever use them.I've seen a couple different types,any better than the other?
Spence,I wrecked BSA back in '75.got that bike when i was 15 in '72,put a plate i found on it and rode 3yrs without getting stopped.
thanks to all for the "get well wishes"
i
Spence,I wrecked BSA back in '75.got that bike when i was 15 in '72,put a plate i found on it and rode 3yrs without getting stopped.
thanks to all for the "get well wishes"
i
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