1. Troutnut Forum
›
2. Fly Tying
›
3. Half and Half Emergers, Page 2

Here is a sulphur style one on a Gamakatsu C13U Pheasant tail abdomen copper wire rib and squirrel thorax

Man! Have you guys been busy! Anyone doing anything other than chatting on this thing? Don't mind me, my Wings were up 2/0 and now they are trailing by one.



Yes...That is her version of Loren William's fly, "The Breakout Emerger". He uses muskrat from the hide with guard hairs and some of the under fur intact to imitate the wings breaking out...

The half & half is an old Mike Lawson tie and he did it originally on a straight hook. I stole from my mentor a loop wing that is a version of Lawsons fly...I tie it on a curved hook now as well, but I'm not sure it matters.

We have had this discussion somewhere before...I have watched midges emerge through the surface film like a bean growing out of the ground with everything else hanging below the surface...I remember watching a film here of the larger Danica euro bug hatching and everything was laid out on top of the meniscus...I'm not saying thats the case everytime, but the physical properties of the tension on top is such that if the bug pierces it they can climb right out on top of it.

I think that the success of the Lawson tie and others may be when it actually sinks below the meniscus and appears as a bug that hasn't made it to the top and is sucked in nymph/emerger/dun all in one big gulp...

I think that sometimes we over think the situation and are more creative than our prey comprehends. :)

I stole a version of the half & half from my mentor we call the Loop Winged Emerger that will remain a secret for the time being...;)

Spence

Tony...I like your idea with the Klinki hook and it looks nice hackle stacker style, but how does it float? I think the parachute style makes more sense without any floatant...Let it all ride on the hackle.

I'm fond of the floating nymph...but I'm an old fart. I'm really fond of Mathews's Sparkle dun, it is a confident fly for me, which may help...Datus Proper I won't talk about...;)

Eric Peper has a two-tone he ties as a wet fly with light gray hen wrapped at the front that is nice as well and a very simple tie.

Spence

Spence, you mean the hours we spend poking around with hooks, designs, materials, etc. isn't fully appreciated by our scaly friends? I'm not so sure. I found a tiny scrap of algae stained paper floating in the Delaware one day, and although it took a microscope to read it, here is what was printed on it, along with tiny silhouettes of the patterns:

"Fly spotting key:

Parachute: Typically tied on a straight hook, color varies. Tail split microfibbets, spade hackle, or some kind of shuck imitation. Upright post at front, hackle wrapped around post just above body. Body materials vary, sometimes natural fur, sometimes synthetic. Look out for biot abdomens as they may look a lot like a real mayfly.

Usual: Typically tied on a straight shank hook, typically metal colored. Snowshoe wing and tail, body varies. Some tie it light and color it with a magic marker onstream, so smell the fly before you taste.

Klinkhamer style: Scud hook, often with an extreme bend. Some black hooks. Abdomen different color from thorax. Parachute hackle. Post typically synthetic.

Catskill dry: straight hook, color varies. Give away is the split wing and long tail made from spade hackle. Standard old-style wrapped hackle fore and aft of wing. Look out for thorax versions trimmed on the bottom (see below) as they may look more like a mayfly. . . .

Comparadun: Invented by Al Caucci, along with his damn spectrumized dubbing. Very tricky fly. Straight hook. Fan shaped deerhair wing typical, but CDC or snowshoe fur is sometimes used. Body typically fur or synthetic, though some use biots. Split microfibbet or spade hackle tail. Also appears as a 'Sparkle Dun' pattern with a synthetic antron, zelon, etc. shuck tail. Don't be fooled by the shuck.

Thorax: Derived from Catskill, reportedly developed to fool Cumberland Valley spring creek trout. Straight hook. Similar to Catskill tie, but wing moved rearward, sparser hackle, clipped flat on the bottom. May have burned wings that look very realistic . . ."

The tiny paper was ripped at this point, but I'll bet a few of my brethren of the long wand have seen similar remnants and can supply the rest of the pattern keys . . ..

Ha! Very good, Louis. Perhaps the part missing was a warning to "Beware crafty Troutnutters who will try to fool or seduce you with subtle variants of the aforementioned designs.":)

Louis,

Maybe them trout are more articulate than I give them credit for! ;)

Maybe they are onto us...

Spence

You're probably right, Spence. In the final analysis, when they catch on to the long curved stingers coming out of the rear ends of our frauds and the drift influencing antennae from their noses stretching to infinity, we're done.:)

Antonio, what kind of hook is this?

TMC100 bent 1/3 from the hook eye

I just realized there's probably two centuries worth of combined (and very competent) experience represented in this thread! Why do I point this out? Because a lot has been presented here by the contributors assuming a certain level of knowledge and experience that may be confusing to many readers... For those wondering what's the big deal about horizontal vs. hanging shucks, wing angle/height (or even having wings) compared to exposed body length and such, perhaps it would be helpful to review the various postures mayflies typically display at various stages of emergence. Make no mistake, heavily pressured fish feeding on these abundant hatches can become quite selective to one posture or another. There are other emergence methods employed by mayflies, but the following describes the one used by most baetids and ephemerellids:

1. As the nymph nears the surface the thoracic dorsum (top) is usually split, showing their bright dun body colors through this split. Sulfur and olive flies will show bright at this spot - bright yellow or orange for the former, a little more subdued greenish olive for the latter. Some nymphs will make this trip more than once, but by the time the split has occurred they are committed.

2. Once the thorax is attached to the underside of the surface film the nymph will float along motionless as if stunned and the dun will begin it's interior struggle to emerge. The nymph body is usually hanging at an angle because the surface tension is too much to break with the entire body. Next, the dun body begins to protrude from the thoracic split through the surface film. At this stage the wings are still in their condensed form and trail on the sides below the bright thorax. They are not a significant influence on either the color or silhouette of the fly at this point.

3. As the dun body further extrudes from the husk, the wings will start to show as thin strips running along the sides and top of the abdomen, but the bright thorax is still the dominate feature. As the forelegs break free to grab hold of the meniscus (surface tension), the body is a little more than half way out. It is at this stage that the trailing husk generally starts its rise to the surface.

4. As the body approaches full eclosion, the wing tips and back legs finally pop out. This can happen simultaneously or one wing may lag a little. The free wing(s) quickly spring(s) up and forward as it/they expand hydraulically. There is no drying process taking place as often expressed with poetic license. Their wings and bodies are covered with microscopic fuzz (explaining the dullness of duns compared to the shiny spinners), thus making the fresh duns quite hydrophobic. It is at this stage that the dun is fully ensconced on the surface with the nymph shuck trailing behind at the surface, still encasing the tails.

5. The dun finally breaks free, floating sedately until it's wings have fully enlarged and stiffened. Then it will flap them a little in trial before finally lifting off in a lumbering search for safety.

This whole process can take place in the blink of an eye or their struggles can seem interminable, depending on the species and circumstance of weather and environment. There is peril at every step and many fail along the way. Cripples can be seen in many forms. Wings stuck, tails stuck. Even a rear foot stuck where the duns somehow end up after their struggle riding on top of their shucks! However, the vast majority will assume the successful postures mentioned above and our imitations are designed to simulate these various postures as best our imaginations can come up with. The trout are (as always) the final arbiters.

Edit - An important characteristic that wasn't mentioned in this thread is color and relative opacity of the shucks. Generally, the smaller the fly the less opaque the shuck is. Baetid shucks tend to be olivacious grey and fairly translucent, Ephemerellids are shades of brown and much less translucent in larger sizes. For example, a size 18 Baetis tricaudatus can be a translucent olive gray with substantial flecking. A size 14 Ephemerella d. infrequens can be a more opaque looking dark brown. That's in the hand, though. Even the dark ephemerellid husk will pass more light than the nymph when viewed from below against the light. A size 12 or larger dark ephemerellid husk can look just like the nymph in the hand.

Nice post Kurt!



How about an Ephemerella subvaria

I was hoping somebody would provide an example. Thanks, Eric.

Great stuff here boys!!!



Taking Tony's fly above and Eric's emerging Henny pic, an argument could be made, pretty well I'd think, for that design...You would need to use a longer shanked hook than the standard dry fly hook called for with the idea of the rear portion somehow remaining below the surface film...

How does it work? Does the bending of the hook like that keep the rear down?

I think, for now, I'll stick with the "floating" nymph concept...If I were a trout and I had half a brain I'd hit the bug that looks like it still has a ways to go before it takes flight...Now a half of a trouts brain...well...not exactly Albert Einstein, but if it makes too many mistakes it could go hungry...

Spence

There are two emerger design directions that don't accurately portray postures that occur in nature. One is the floating nymph concept that floats stick straight on the surface with a tuft of grey dubbing affixed to the top (supposedly simulating wings protruding). The other direction are those designs that show prominent wings fully extended and upright with only a small amount of body protruding from the shuck.

While they certainly catch fish, I haven't found them nearly as effective as those that more accurately conform to the postures actually assumed by the bugs. Maybe it's a confidence thing...:)

Edit: Don't confuse "wings" used for sighters as meant to simulate the actual wings. Their purpose is to suspend the fly in the film and make them easier to see, not simulate wings. Examples are stacked hackle and parachute hackle with short sections of some kind of hi-vis material used as the post. The forward slanting wings of a Quigley Cripple are angled that way to facilitate an attractive wake and keep the fly at the surface on the swing in delicate currents. This was adapted from steelhead and salmon skaters.

There is always a love/hate relationship with CDC among members here, but this fly has bailed me out on many occasions during the spring Baetis hatch.
I have started to tie the "dun colored thorax hump" with foam recently (sorry, Shawn), especially when imitating larger mayflies.

Tony, I've been playing around with foam thorax humps too. Let's compare on SC.

I always find it thought provoking whenever the subject of “heavily pressured fish” and “selectivity” is broached, and the extent that we as tiers will go to emulate a specific stage of a dynamic process. Ideally, during a hatch, I am selectively casting to a rhythmically feeding trout. I suppose my short coming, to tighten the line on any particular fish, may be attributable to the fly failing the particular specifics that any particular fish happens to require at any particular moment in time, provided the presentation and drift are to its liking. When the fish are feeding and the water surface is littered with emerging insects I find that the various degrees of water surface turbulence can easily mask and make indistinguishable a determination of specific stage as it may relate to “selectivity”. Rise forms can certainly present a key, but I doubt they can effectively be translated into splitting hair. So now the dilemma presents itself. Do I start switching flies in hope that my box contains the magic elixir that this particular fish will find intoxicating, or do I move on hoping that my fly will better match the whims of the next fish? I have done both but find the former most satisfying and the accomplishments more often made into everlasting memories. That’s not to say that I haven’t spent countless hours throwing everything I had within reason at particular fish over the years only to be rewarded at best with a refusal. But then too I’ve stuck it out with the same fly only to have the fish finally get pissed off enough to rid himself of the nuisance, for lack of a better explanation. In hindsight maybe I can best attribute my meager success to those not so “selective” fish that you guys have failed to educate on those heavily pressured waters. For that I am eternally grateful.

An interesting topic and some great posts guys.

Nice design, Tony. I confess to not being a big fan of CDC, but in this case, my "gut" tells me this one is a winner.;) The CDC doesn't bother me as even when it becomes irreparably sodden, I would think the fly could perhaps become even more attractive? At least until it gets chewed to the point that the ball of dun thorax is destroyed. A simple short clump may work too?

Alan -


That's why I usually start off hatches (once the fish are clearly breaking the surface) with dun imitations to see if I can get away with them. If not, I'll then work through the progression of light nymphs and emergers, often in tandem if the currents will let me get away with it (complex ones often cause the flies to fight each other creating micro drag). Unless I am close enough to actually see a certain profile disappearing in swirls (this is getting increasingly more difficult as my eyes age), it's usually "chuck and chance it" based on confidence or intuition to find the posture they prefer. The truth is I'm not good enough to tell from rise forms alone whether they are taking a ripe nymph in the surface film, an emerger 1/4 out of the shuck, or 3/4 out of the shuck unless a wing is sticking up. ... My experience (ego) compels me to judge such claims as hyperbole.:)


For me it depends on the fish. Many are the times I've risked a good skunking by wasting the hatch on a particularly challenging situation, often over the drift as much as the quality of the fish (though they are generally good ones). I succumb to this malady knowing full well if I moved on my total would easily be a dozen or more, with several probably being just as good in terms of size. I'll probably keep doing it....

:) Don't you dare get my obsessive self going on this topic! ;) I nearly lost my mind, some claim it has long been gone, in 1995 on the Madison doing battle with a snubbing hog behind a boulder...He never broke a sweat...I'm not sure if he even noticed me or my Herculean effort, but I've never forgotten the spanking that fish gave me on that day...

I started to act like Gollum and his precious ring...I would look back over my shoulder to peek and see if anyone was watching from shore, laughing no doubt, as I tied on still yet another...I couldn't talk myself away from this situation...

After he stopped feeding and it got dark I actually took out a pen and marked a small secretive arrow on a small rock in the trail to mark where this fish was...I went back the next day and luckily couldn't find the marker stone. Otherwise, I might still be standing there...I wish I were kidding here.

Numbers of fish vs size...I think a great many folk get excited when a hatch really gets going and there seems to be feeders everywhere...It is easy to pursue these fish and miss the trout of the season...My fishing buddy would tell me that this is the time to be wary and go head hunting...Try to find the fish that could really be a challenge. Catching all the dinks feeding in a pool only has the potential of putting down Mr. Big.

Mr Borger wrote an interesting book years back called simply, "Presentation"...and the whole presentation includes stealth...The better anglers I've fished with are very patient folk...The best compliment that guide friends would give for my friend Bill was that he was a Great Blue Heron...Ever really watch one of them fish?

It's kind of like the days when we were single and out on the town...In the club there may be a woman whose challenge is way beyond our skill and you could settle for the easier prey of over eager guppies, but you are just letting yourself down...It takes time and effort and in order for it to really matter we should take the time and effort...Remember the mystery blond in the T-Bird in American Graffiti? :) Now don't ask me about Cindy Knish...That's a whole other problem! ;)

Spence