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3. Indicators

How do you guys feel about nymphing with indicators? What techniques do you use when throwing them, and what is your indicator of choice? Feel free to add any other comments related to the topic!!!!!!!!!!!

Seldom use them personally, and I own, and make most of them in use...from Thingamabobs to simple yarn indicators. I have thousands of "little corky" bobbers that were used for steelheading years ago. Just don't choose to use them when on the water. Virtually every time that I do though, it is a bigger dry fly that is the indicator...hopper/dropper type thing. And it usually is 2/3 of the way through a days float, and we have had poor results that I say to my partner, "think we'd better use a dropper along with that dry."

Jesse,
I am partial to the little sleve type indicators that I jam onto the knots in my leader so I end up with multiple "indicators" and therefore don't have to be constantly fiddling to account for depth. I only use this on days where nymphing is the only technique I plan on using for the day (ie winter or high water).
Second to those are the thingamabobbers or a small ballon in the same fashion which I learned to love on the Missouri a few summers back. They allow for fairly rapid changes in indicator to fly distance aren't too terrible to cast and are fairly sensitive.
But in all honesty I have learned to "nymph naked" and enjoy it.
JW

me too, and it is the ultimate in nymphing...but eventually there is that one slot i just can't quite reach with a 9 ft rod, so i slap on a couple of snips of poly yarn in a drab color with a Lark's Head knot at an appropriate depth, and float the same "naked" rig.

that drab poly is enough to see and not so much as to spook winter fish. grey and some olive is great. McFlylon is a good brand to try for this. infinitely adjustable, cheap, unobtrusive.

i am an unadventurous wader (read small and not young), especially in the winter, and this extends my reach quite a bit.

George Daniels has a great book out, Dynamic Nymphing, and in it he discusses different sorts of indicators in detail, dividing them into those used for tight lining and those used as suspension devices. It's one of the best discussions I've seen. I use colored mono filament built into my leader and/or little dots of strike putty when tight lining, and a variety of devices when suspending, including the foam types, which I generally prefer. I've had some success with yarn also, and with dry flies, using the dry and dropper set up.

I seldom nymph in the traditional sense any longer when trout fishing but on those few occasions when a nymph is chosen I fish it without the encumberance of a bobber. I have no difficulty in sensing strikes. I was nymphing my butt off for decades before many forum members were even born. I know it might be difficult to believe but after you nymph often, for about ten years, you can sometimes just sense there is a trout there. It never happened that often but I remember just a subtle feeling that something was there and when I lifted the rod bent.

Now when I steelhead fish the Erie creeks I have a orange, or pink, Thingamabobber on my leader all day long. Not so much to see the take but to keep my two flies from getting hung up constantly on all the loose shale on the bottom.

I have been known to drop a BHPT on a 8" piece of 5X off of my dry fly when fishing in Montana.

Seems like the Catskill fly fisher and I have had similar experiences. I fished nymphs for many years in the same way... no bobbers, intense concentration, and the end result was at times just knowing a fish was on. My first trout on a fly was from Michigan's AuSable East Branch in 1954...

I agree Matt, depth control requires their use sometimes. An example is with long floats down a run that is pretty uniform in depth. It's a lot of work to keep the nymphs out of the cobble yet still in the zone without an indicator.

One use that I've never understood that perhaps someone could explain is the reason some anglers have for sliding the egg type up a tapered leader to within a foot or two of the line tip on the butt. Regarding the butt, they are a pain in it to cast and the only function I see them performing is taking the angler's focus off the line and leader, which is not a good thing.

Some of my best hooksets are when I try to cast, and a darn fish won't let me. Positive, right in the corner of the mouth..dry fly fishing, or nymphing.

Do you guys feel that more strikes are missed due to their suppleness when not using any sort of an indicator?

I like the sleeves that JW mentioned, and I also like the "turn on", in it's smallest size. I'll often use the two together (but I've been told my nymphing "technique" is kinda weird, so you can take my input with a big grain of salt).

If you can't see the leader and only have the line tip's motion to work with, very delicate takes are obviously harder to detect simply because the line tip is further away from the fly and therefore far less likely to register such subtleties.

However, there is something in human nature that allows for a "sixth sense" to kick in at times, usually as the result of intense practice of the art. Guys that have it often chuckle that they don't know why they set up. They claim not to see or necessarily feel anything, they just "know" a fish is there. It's been described as "being in the zone", "getting the timing" or "being one with the river" among other descriptions that may seem more or less silly. I can't explain it and many may scoff at this as esoteric hyperbole. But I've witnessed the effect too many times to be a doubter about its existence, whatever label is put on it.

what would you say to those who are less experienced though? Im not talking about for us PRO's ah ;)

Same thing. It's up to them how they want to approach it. Most stick with the obvious first paragraph realities and use an indicator. You only get to the latter paragraph through practice and it doesn't really matter when you start. In fact an argument can be made that a beginner that hasn't been exposed to a lot of indicator fishing will have a shorter learning curve than one who has.

I know a lot of people in the sport with 5 seasons or more experience that have never really employed any method other than indicator nymphing. Heck, just watch the fishing shows. You'd be amazed how many think that indicator fishing is the universe. If you took away their indicators, I think they'd have less confidence than the beginner.:)

Some of the first trout I ever caught on a fly were taken with dead drifting nymphs tumbled down deep into inlets where pods of rainbows were staging. sometimes you'd see a twitch, usually a pause, but after doing it enough, you'd often pull the trigger and not really know why you did. More often than not a fish would be there. Sierra lakes after ice-out are great for this and there are hundreds of them. On Putah creek, I used to fish the shallower pools with the leader butt greased and look for the twitch. All these experiences occurred in my youth. I'm not an "expert" now (whatever that means), and I certainly wasn't one back then.:)

Back to your original point though, I guarantee a lot of takes go undetected, regardless of method.

Kurt,

You wrote;

"I've never understood that perhaps someone could explain is the reason some anglers have for sliding the egg type up a tapered leader to within a foot or two of the line tip on the butt."

I think I know why that is done - Way back in the early 1990's I went to the Big Horn with a buddy and for one day we booked a very well known local guide who had a little lodge. Well I can't mention his name because he and I had major words within the first half hour of the float. Basically he told me I had to use his flies because he had so much experience and how in the world did I think my flies would be any good.

But before we had the final blow-up and I told him not to speak to me for the rest of the day he did show me how to be very successful in nymphing straight upstream in fast water.

He took one of those double sided hot red little stick-on indicators and put it about three inches below my nail knot. He told me to tie on a pheasant tail and a scud (mine haha) and a little "B" size shot and throw it upstream and just watch that little stick-on indicator while bringing in the slack as the line floated back to me. It was so easy to see the take when the indicator did a little jerk upstream. Actually is was like I was in a river that had never been fished and cast after cast I was hooking up with hot rainbows and browns. I'm convinced to this day that I wouldn't have been able to see the line move upstream without the stick-on.

In my opinion when the indicator is near the nail knot it is truly perfoming the function of a strike indicator and not a depth control mechanism.

BTW at the end of the day as we were in his vehicle going back to Cottonwood Campground where we were staying he says to my friend "Oh yea, bt the way, you owe me $25.00 for the flies you used today". I'm not kidding that is what he said.

Matt -

Ah... You were cutting into his profit margins! Imagine what he would have tried to charge you if you did use a lot of his flies... Did you tip him well?:) LOL

Being both guide and lodge operator can set up a bit of a conflict of interest. I never worried about flies. Mine, yours - whatever works and makes people happy. I would comment if I thought a particular choice was a bad selection and always encouraged being shown boxes at the beginning of the day. You'd be surprised how often remembering a guys selection would turn out to be important later. I'd always ask which ones he tied and catalog the ones I thought would work. Later, if the right situation came up I'd recommend one of the flies he tied. If it worked well, that was one happy angler!

That makes sense about the indicators. I'll often use a tiny gob of that floating clay type fluorescent putty that Orvis sold years ago. Covering the connection, it keeps the line tip floating and is easier to see in the riffles. It does not impact casting in the least.

I'm talking about those big bulbous foam ones though. You know, the ones that make casting such a pleasure?;)

Kurt,


"I'm talking about those big bulbous foam ones though. You know, the ones that make casting such a pleasure?;)"

Yes, I know exactly the kind you are referring to. I've used them with the hole in the center which is a nuisance because if you want to take it off you have to cut off your fly. I've also tried the pear shaped ones with the slit through the middle and the rubber tube that is supposed to pinch your leader and hold it in place. I can't remember how many times I'd execute a forceful roll cast with a BB or two, fly, and one of those indiators only to see it fly across to the center of the stream, no longer on my leader, and float downstream gone forever.

Does watching for the flash of a nymphing trout when you think that your fly is in the general vicinity count as using an indicator?
I will often fish a riffle before a hatch with an unweighted, slim profile nymph the same way that I would blind cast an attractor dry fly.
The nymph (like the dry) must come down "drag free" and instead of looking for a rise, I concentrate on looking for (or "6th sensing") a subtle flash.

I read an article about indicators from the book Louis mentions, "Dynamic Nymphing", and it made sense to me. I was taught highstick nymphing at an early age and was told that was the proper way to fish. In his article, George says he uses small indicators when he is fishing skinny water. The idea being that he can make longer casts (drifts) without the fear of getting too close and spooking his quarry. Like I said, it makes good sense to me. The article is on the TCO website.
Like WestBranch, I, too, have been nymphing for many years and have developed a sense that a fish is about to take my nymphs. But, there are times when you either pass up a run you can't fish properly, or use an indicator. I've been passing up those runs, but this year I'm gong to give a floating indicator a chance in those hard to reach runs.

I use multiple ways of detecting takes that may or may not rely on or use something extra on the leader -as Tony mentions.

I've come to view add-on "indicators" as... as much for drift control (speed being critical) as for "strike" indication. Water, esp flowing water, is a complicated medium -especially in 3 dimensions.

I've settled on several basic types of "indicators" and carry an "indicator box" that has each type in several sizes:
-none; control accomplished by "feel" (IME there really is no magic here; the usual senses do the work. The magic I suppose is how experienced/honed those senses are.)

-hydrodynamic pill shaped drift indicators for current; important that they can be easily repositioned on the leader as I adjust them constantly.

-tuft of yarn for flat slow water, simply bc yarn alights softly.

-tiny stick-on foam, I make myself, for very shallow water; usually on tiny streams where I won't have to re-position the indicator, and that tend to be too brushy to risk having the extra hook in the air as when using a dry fly as indicator.

-dry fly for very shallow fish; regardless of stream/river size. This one is not used as a "drift indicator" but as an offering as well as a strike indicator.