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3. Need help on caddis ID, Page 2

Kurt, that fly is a thing of beauty.

I will be tying that!!
To keep this thread going - what do you folks like for an egg laying caddis and how about a diving caddis as well?

Thanks guys for the compliments -

Approaching the mid-sized (12 - 18) stream caddis topic holistically, here's what I carry and how I fish them, FWIW:

Larvae

- Rhyaco Larva (Oliver Edwards)
- Hydro Larva
- Little Glosso larva
- Reverse Peeker (cased)

These are all fished the same way... Deep. Use High Stick, Czech, or under indicators, depending on water type. I don't use them in association with hatching activity, and never fish them alone.

Deep Pupae

- Pettis Glass-Bead Pupa (Pettis)
- B.H. Poopah (Fox)
- Halfback Sparkle pupa

These are fished deep as well during the hours before and early part of a hatch. Same methods as above.

Shallow Pupa

- Halo Pupa

Fished on the swing with another fly or dead drift behind a dry a foot or so.

Emergers

- E/C Caddis (Cutter)
- Delta-wing Klinkhammer (also double duties as a spent adult)

Both are fished dry & dead drift.

Adults (floating)

- Parachute Caddis
- Realistic Caddis

Fish these dead-drift. The first does double duty as an indicator. Never had much success on moving water with skittering adults for anything but dinks. the parachutes also do a decent job of aping the the surface impression of the spent adults. I do carry classic Elk-hairs (and a few small Stimulators), but consider them attractors and fish them as such.

Diving Adults

- Antron Soft Hackle
- Rowing Caddis

Fish these as per shallow pupa, excepting the rowing caddis is always fished with twitches.

This is what I do, at least currently.:)

...and I thought my vest was over packed! ;)

Spence

Ha! Now try to carry all those for the dozen or so species/variations you'd probably run into during a season, Spence. Don't forget mayflies, stoneflies, midges, Misc. Aquatics, Terrestrials, Attractors (nymph & dry). Finally, the streamers! You should be able to carry all you may need adequately in twenty to thirty boxes or so... :)

Or, you could leave most of them home in your collection except those you anticipate running into for a given outing. That's what I do. On waters I know well, I usually get by with just a couple of boxes (I mean all flies, not just caddis:)). On waters I'm unfamiliar with, I may up that to four or more, and I usually don't get too specific w/ imitations as a rule.

Regards,

Kurt

Tony, My diver uses a paper-thin foam overwing, over a caddis pupa body similar to Kurt's photo. The wing is just rigid enough that the fly, anchored to a split about a foot away, skates about like a paper airplane. Which is pretty much what a swimming adult looks like -they're buoyant, and pretty darn quick. The aggressiveness fish show in taking the fly tells me that the imitation is adequate and the fish have to move quick on the naturals.

Good info here Paul! I have watched fish during fairly heavy hatches of caddis and also during Hex activity...I think that they lose it, for lack of a better explanation. During these frenzied times the fish are geeked and I think a fly's behavior, as you have pointed out here, is more important than just about anything else...Within limits of course.

During these times if you can get your fly where its supposed to be (where the fish are seeing and taking them) and get it to act like the natural to some extent...Problem solved!

I watched a nice fish one day rooting with it's snout in to a muck bank for Hex nymphs. There was a large mud stain floating downstream from where he was working...In my opinion, just about anything floated by this fish at that depth would of been taken by him. At one point, and for no apparent reason, he stopped what he was doing to race to the surface and make a couple leaps from the water! A real feeding frenzy.

When their little brains are lit up like that anything floating by isn't safe...:) It can be really frustrating though to actually be watching all this activity and your fly not getting any attention...Been there! Done that! On-the-other-hand, if you have the right fly you will be walking back to the fishing wagon that evening with a big smile on your face. Those cold Molson's on ice in the cooler in the back of the truck couldn't taste any better! :)

Spence

Paul & Spence -

Yes! I haven't seen it described this way in print before (that I remember), but the diving caddis looks very much like diving water beetles or waterboatmen. They row along underwater in pulses amazingly fast with their two prominant swimmer legs. Though the fish are usually OK with an adult dead drifted or fished with a controlled swing, sometimes - the fish key in on that rowing motion. That's what my rowing caddis is for.

I've experimented with the same pattern tied as a swimming pharate, but found it works better on lakes where some species motor across the film in this stage. It could also be due to their usually larger size. For the smaller caddis pharates (14 and under) It's hard to beat the pulsing barbules of a soft-hackle if the fish are keying in on this behavior...

Regards,

Kurt

A simple old "Gannom" wet is hard to beat during Brachycentrus egg laying activity...A bright green floss tag to imitate the egg mass, peacock wrapped body and hen hackle...

Spence

Thanks, Kurt. I'd actually been playing with a "kicking caddis" pupa idea that is unconventional. If it pans out, I'll share it.

In the roiled farmland streams I used that diver in, I couldn't imagine a better result. It was...unusual. I haven't used it in the clear waters here in CO yet though. Adding a kicking version might be a good idea, esp in slower pools.

Hi Paul,

Look forward to seeing it. Don't laugh... mine incorporates a pair of nymph sized rubber legs and a shell back of clear antron.

Kurt

I would NEVER laugh at someone's flies. Some of the biggest breakthroughs have, and will, come from breaking tradition.