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Artistic view of a Male Pteronarcys californica (Pteronarcyidae) (Giant Salmonfly) Stonefly Adult from the Gallatin River in Montana
Salmonflies
Pteronarcys californica

The giant Salmonflies of the Western mountains are legendary for their proclivity to elicit consistent dry-fly action and ferocious strikes.

Dorsal view of a Sweltsa (Chloroperlidae) (Sallfly) Stonefly Nymph from the Yakima River in Washington
This species was fairly abundant in a February sample of the upper Yakima.
27" brown trout, my largest ever. It was the sub-dominant fish in its pool. After this, I hooked the bigger one, but I couldn't land it.
Troutnut is a project started in 2003 by salmonid ecologist Jason "Troutnut" Neuswanger to help anglers and fly tyers unabashedly embrace the entomological side of the sport. Learn more about Troutnut or support the project for an enhanced experience here.

Lestrout
chester ct, pa

Posts: 1
Lestrout on Mar 23, 2007March 23rd, 2007, 3:01 pm EDT
gonzo

regarding your mysterious new breakage with SS, is it possible that your knots are cutting into the next section? I mix my tippet and leader materials a lot, and I find that after a while, or after a big strain on the leader system, that a thinner, typically harder mono (or fluoro) cuts into a thicker softer one.

tl
les
TheMidge
Massachusetts

Posts: 16
TheMidge on Apr 26, 2007April 26th, 2007, 7:24 am EDT
I use climax leaders and Rio Tippet
Martinlf
Martinlf's profile picture
Moderator
Palmyra PA

Posts: 3047
Martinlf on Jul 5, 2007July 5th, 2007, 2:29 pm EDT
John, a few posts above I quote Dave on the Puglisi tippet. There are some interesting points made about tippet throughout the thread.
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell
GONZO
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681
GONZO on Jul 5, 2007July 5th, 2007, 3:15 pm EDT
Just for what it's worth (and admittedly that's not much), I'll share the anecdotal experience I've had with a few other brands since I stopped using Orvis SS:

Rio--supple, but also very slick. I've often had a hell of a time tying knots that won't slip in this stuff.

Umpqua--strong enough and pretty good abrasion resistance, but some of that strength seems to come from oversize diameters. I haven't miked it, but if I can see the difference, it must be significant.

Climax--soft and supple, but the abrasion resistance kinda sucks. Better for dries than nymphs.

Frog Hair--I've heard good things (and bad), but must confess that it's just too expensive for me. Pocketbook just won't open wide enough to allow testing. (As Lee says in an earlier post, "Did I mention that I'm cheap?")

The result? I'm back to using Orvis SS. So far, so good. And, all things being equal, the extra yardage per buck makes a difference to me. Of course, this is completely unscientific, and you should feel free to dismiss all of these findings as superstitious.
Davez
Pennsylvania

Posts: 59
Davez on Jul 6, 2007July 6th, 2007, 2:17 am EDT
I like the brown maxima for leaders. I tie most of my own. I love the stiffness, and how you can "pull" them straight. they help me make decent dry fly presentations.

I am not loyal to any one brand of tippet, I believe there is probably one or two makers of tippet- orvis probably doesn't make their own, it is labelled as their own. Just like they probably don't make their own fly line. I could be wrong.

that said, I have used Dai riki for many years, but because of convenience and availability in my area, I have lots of RIO and probably a mixed bag of stuff. I guess in a fly shop that has it all, I probably would grab RIO or Dai Rikki. Old habits never die.

However, the scientific anglers stuff- the heavier stuff is very clear in color- and is stiffer. I really like this for bass leaders and tippets and for big streamer leaders.

I find that Rio holds a knot well and stays straight and I can present it well. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that as long as your tippet is fresh and you tie a good, well lubed knot, you'll probably have decent success. I have lost many a big trout from tippet that was old and dried out.

this all said, I have not used flourocarbon- been at this 25 yeas and can't stomach paying double when I know I can catch fish on the cheaper stuff! frog hair is made on the island in pittsburgh under the 31st street bridge. same company that makes tennis racket string. I used to work next door.
Wiflyfisher
Wiflyfisher's profile picture
Wisconsin

Posts: 622
Wiflyfisher on Jul 7, 2007July 7th, 2007, 10:33 am EDT
Now jumping from knots to tippets (thank you Louis), I tried Orvis SS and hated it, as well as SA, Climax and some others. I have always enjoyed Dai Riki tippet materials, but I am open to suggestions for my upcoming trip out West.

Many years ago I tested tippet materials with a fish scale and a self-made holder with a metal post to secure the line too. Dai Riki was near the top of the materials I tested by pulling the line with the fish scale. If a knot broke I did not count it, just when the actual tippet material snapped. I also found by mic'ing the tippet and leader materials either my mic was way off or a lot of leader materials give inaccurate diameters. (Again, this was sometime in the 1980's, not recently).
Wiflyfisher
Wiflyfisher's profile picture
Wisconsin

Posts: 622
Wiflyfisher on Jul 7, 2007July 7th, 2007, 1:23 pm EDT
I am also told from a very avid and excellent FF'er to pick up some spools of Puglisi tippet material, which I will do! I am always looking to improve my leaders and my own shortcomings.
Wbranch
Wbranch's profile picture
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2635
Wbranch on Jul 22, 2007July 22nd, 2007, 2:18 am EDT
Personally I like Rio as it is limp and has good break and knot strength. I also am able to get it at 40% off list so that makes me like it even more.
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
Martinlf
Martinlf's profile picture
Moderator
Palmyra PA

Posts: 3047
Martinlf on Jul 23, 2007July 23rd, 2007, 1:51 am EDT
Puglisi has proven to be very strong this season. I'm only using it now.
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell
Wbranch
Wbranch's profile picture
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2635
Wbranch on Aug 12, 2007August 12th, 2007, 5:12 pm EDT
I typically use Climax and Rio flourocarbon in 5X and 6X for all of my dry fly work and the occassional nymph that I hang off of the back of the dry fly. For 7X I like the Pugilisi material when I can find it and use the Rio when it isn't available.

I use Rio or Orvis SS for my 3X and 4X and on tippets heavier than 3X it really doesn't seem to matter that much. I would though say for my streamer work I never go lighter than 1X and usually go with 0X or heavier as normally the fish are not seeing the leader as the streamer is "fleeing" and secondly I've caught many 20" - 23" browns and probably half a dozen 23" - 27" browns and have never broken a tippet on the strike or during the fight. Why would one use a lighter tippet if there is a likelihood of catching the fish of the season, or of a lifetime, when the heavier tippet works just as well?
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
Martinlf
Martinlf's profile picture
Moderator
Palmyra PA

Posts: 3047
Martinlf on Aug 13, 2007August 13th, 2007, 9:00 am EDT
Thanks for these observations. I especially liked the way the logic on streamer tippet was analyzed.
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell
Steelheader
Orangeville Pa.

Posts: 1
Steelheader on Mar 10, 2008March 10th, 2008, 10:36 am EDT
I use Si angler leaders and Puglisi tippet material. Stuff works great on big water and big fish with light tippet. I use both for salmon, browns and steelhead on Great Lakes tribs. I also use both on local streams for trout and the river for bass. Can buy both locally here at Fishing Creek Angler in Benton Pa.
steelheader
Kroil
Coastal NJ

Posts: 34
Kroil on Mar 10, 2008March 10th, 2008, 11:38 am EDT
For those of you that feel "tippet material" makes a difference, I have used Gut leaders, and silk lines, and cane rods and other very coarse gear for some of the most selective trout in the world. all of this gear is very visible.
Putting your faith in technology, rather than presentation skills, is, a crutch.
Learn to cast like an expert and present drag free presentaions to selective fish and sometimes they will eat a beercan on the end of an 0X tippet.
JMO
When I found the skull in the woods, the first thing I did was call the police. But then I got curious about it. I picked it up, and started wondering who this person was, and why he had deer horns. - Jack Handey

Kroil
Coastal NJ

Posts: 34
Kroil on Mar 10, 2008March 10th, 2008, 11:49 am EDT
For those of you that feel "tippet material" makes a difference, I have used Gut leaders, and silk lines, and cane rods and other very coarse gear for some of the most selective trout in the world. all of this gear is very visible.
Putting your faith in technology, rather than presentation skills, is, a crutch.
Learn to cast like an expert and present drag free presentaions to selective fish and sometimes they will eat a beercan on the end of an 0X tippet.
JMO
When I found the skull in the woods, the first thing I did was call the police. But then I got curious about it. I picked it up, and started wondering who this person was, and why he had deer horns. - Jack Handey

Kinzua
W. PA

Posts: 20
Kinzua on Mar 10, 2008March 10th, 2008, 12:22 pm EDT
For tippet, I use Rio Fluoroflex Plus exclusively. For me it makes a BIG difference. For hand-tied leaders, I like Maxima Green for the butt and transition sections.
Flybyknight
Milton, DE

Posts: 82
Flybyknight on Mar 11, 2008March 11th, 2008, 1:00 pm EDT
I can understand some disliking Orvis. I bought the kit, tied up a mess of leaders in a wide variety of lengths and final gauges. Used it one season and tossed it all, because the curl memory is hard to straighten, and the finer thicknesses are too stiff; and I hate that curl where the tippet meets my dry fly.
Well after a long series of experiments which I will not bore you with the details, I settled on Maxima for wets and nymphs, and Umpqua leader and yes Fenwick for my dry fly tippets. It works for me because I can get leader and tippet to sink, yet the smallest dry flies in my box float proud.
Lightly on the dimpling eddy fling;
the hypocritic fly's unruffled wing.
Thomas Scott
Wbranch
Wbranch's profile picture
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2635
Wbranch on Mar 11, 2008March 11th, 2008, 2:48 pm EDT
Kroil has a point in learning to cast well and present the fly in a drag free manner. However expecting to catch large trout on #18 and smaller flies tied to 0x tippets is a bit of a stretch. I tend to think that many fly guys do use too light of a tippet in many instances and I like to use the highest X number that will still permit the fly to float in a lifelike manner.
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
JAD
JAD's profile picture
Alexandria Pa

Posts: 362
JAD on Mar 12, 2008March 12th, 2008, 2:08 am EDT


I think the tippet size changes with the amount of fishing pressure that has been placed on the fish.

John

They fasten red (crimson red) wool around a hook, and fix onto the wool two feathers which grow under a cock’s wattles, and which in colour are like wax.
Radcliffe's Fishing from the Earliest Times,
Andyg
Eastern Sussex co., NJ

Posts: 13
Andyg on Mar 12, 2008March 12th, 2008, 2:09 am EDT
Like most of you, I've tried every new leader material looking for the ultimate. Unlike most of you I'm now using Airflo G3 Sight-free fluorocarbon. Their 6X tests at 4 pounds, but it mikes slightly larger than Orvis and Frog's Hair fluoro which is right on the nose. This is obviously the reason for the higher strength. I have landed some very large fish on G3 and in high, fast water conditions.

On the other hand, I also break off a fish every now and then seemingly for no apparent reason. I attribute this to how carefully the knot was tied and whether it seated properly. Tying knots on the water is a lot different than tying knots in a laboratory.

I'm of the opinion that most of the knot failures we all experience is in direct relation to how the knot was tied. I broke off the first three fish I hooked on Frog's Hair, and when I mentioned this at the Gamma Technologies booth at Somerset, I had an hour knot testing session with their Product Line Manager, Tom Ference.

To make a long story short, Tom's knots didn't break but mine did eventhough I lubricated them with syliva. The difference was that I snugged-up my knots on the tippet and then slid them against the hook eye whereas Tom snugged and seated his knots AT the hook eye which seemed to make all the difference in the world. This leads me to believe that even the slight amount of heat generated when the knot slides is detrimental to its strength as well as the fact it might not seat properly. We used the 16/20 Knot for our testing.
Martinlf
Martinlf's profile picture
Moderator
Palmyra PA

Posts: 3047
Martinlf on Mar 12, 2008March 12th, 2008, 6:55 am EDT
Very interesting. I also have found that the 16/20 is tricky to seat properly. If you don't get the little click at the end it is bound to fail. I'd be willing to bet this was not a factor in your tests, though. I'm still sticking with mono this season, mostly for environmental reasons, after using Rio Flouroflex Plus for years.
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell

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