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Artistic view of a Male Pteronarcys californica (Pteronarcyidae) (Giant Salmonfly) Stonefly Adult from the Gallatin River in Montana
Salmonflies
Pteronarcys californica

The giant Salmonflies of the Western mountains are legendary for their proclivity to elicit consistent dry-fly action and ferocious strikes.

Artistic view of a Perlodidae (Springflies and Yellow Stones) Stonefly Nymph from the Yakima River in Washington
This one seems to lead to Couplet 35 of the Key to Genera of Perlodidae Nymphs and the genus Isoperla, but I'm skeptical that's correct based on the general look. I need to get it under the microscope to review several choices in the key, and it'll probably end up a different Perlodidae.
27" brown trout, my largest ever. It was the sub-dominant fish in its pool. After this, I hooked the bigger one, but I couldn't land it.
Troutnut is a project started in 2003 by salmonid ecologist Jason "Troutnut" Neuswanger to help anglers and fly tyers unabashedly embrace the entomological side of the sport. Learn more about Troutnut or support the project for an enhanced experience here.

Martinlf
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Palmyra PA

Posts: 3047
Martinlf on Dec 10, 2006December 10th, 2006, 2:00 pm EST
OK, the mono guys have me ready to renounce my life as a fluoro heretic, at least for a while. And though I don't expect hard science here, but rather informed opinion, I'd like to hear what you folks out there like for tippet material. I have heard that Frog Hair loses elasticity after a hard stretch, but I'm not sure I believe it. I used to prefer Dai Riki Velvet in my monofilament days, but it appears to have been replaced. Any suggestions and rationales for them?
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell
Troutnut
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Bellevue, WA

Posts: 2758
Troutnut on Dec 10, 2006December 10th, 2006, 5:03 pm EST
I usually use Orvis Superstrong high up on the leader and Frog Hair for the tippet.
Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D.
Troutnut and salmonid ecologist
Martinlf
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Palmyra PA

Posts: 3047
Martinlf on Dec 11, 2006December 11th, 2006, 12:01 am EST
David, I believe Bob Clouser uses Trilene for saltwater leaders. If so, you're in good company. Jason, what do you like best about Frog Hair?
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell
Softhackle
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Wellsville, NY

Posts: 540
Softhackle on Dec 11, 2006December 11th, 2006, 12:15 am EST
I Like Climax or Maxima depending upon the application.

Mark
"I have the highest respect for the skilled wet-fly fisherman, as he has mastered an art of very great difficulty." Edward R. Hewitt

Flymphs, Soft-hackles and Spiders: http://www.troutnut.com/libstudio/FS&S/index.html
Troutnut
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Bellevue, WA

Posts: 2758
Troutnut on Dec 11, 2006December 11th, 2006, 4:02 am EST
Jason, what do you like best about Frog Hair?


The flexibility. It's also very strong.
Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D.
Troutnut and salmonid ecologist
GONZO
Site Editor
"Bear Swamp," PA

Posts: 1681
GONZO on Dec 11, 2006December 11th, 2006, 5:33 am EST
Like David, I've used Orvis Super Strong for a very long time (happily). Over the past couple of seasons, however, I've been disturbed by an unusually high incidence of mysterious failures. (I have no idea why. I don't think I'm doing anything differently.) Because my fishing partner was experiencing the same puzzling problems, I recently switched to Climax. It seems agreeable enough, perhaps a little softer and more pliable than the SS. I'm paying attention to the other opinions here, though, because I don't have a current "favorite."
Upnorth2
Wisconsin

Posts: 62
Upnorth2 on Dec 11, 2006December 11th, 2006, 10:11 am EST
The folks at Frog Hair have been really great with sending things to try out, which is why I got into the product. About every producer of materials has something special about their products. I've found that for my musky leaders it is hard to beat their tapers and butt sections on their steelhead to saltwater leaders. For me at least, with the bigger fish, pike and musky will do in any kind of mono or flurocarbon and big pike grind more than musky. Loose a 45-inch pike to carbon and you'll regret using it. I stay with wire for abrasion and the added weight with a snap. Frog Hair also makes the Harvey leader for slack-line fishing. Not alot of fun to make by hand. I simply like their mono products for being elastic and yet very strong, works for most of the conditions I encounter. Not encountered the lack of strength from anything yet. For lakers all I use is frog hair.

Fishing trout beads for salmon, lake runs browns at times with beads, steelhead, and splake, I use their flurocarbon materials since it sinks the best. I'm not sold on the vanishing aspects of any product yet completely. Our hex hatch at night is not that critical for me. So I do not get critical either. Smallmouth might be the only fishing where I am using a carbon leader since you might get a small musky interested in the river as well, but a big fish will take the leader and cut it.
LittleJ
Hollidaysburg Pa

Posts: 251
LittleJ on Dec 11, 2006December 11th, 2006, 12:35 pm EST
I tie my leaders w/ maxima and use frog hair tippet. I have never really had a problem w/either. I wouldn't hesitate to use maxima for tippet, that combo just happens to be what's in my vest and on the tying desk.
Has any one here tried poly leaders?
Jeff
Brett
Martinsburg, WV

Posts: 15
Brett on Dec 13, 2006December 13th, 2006, 1:15 am EST
My guiding friends on the Cumberland River back in Kentucky hook quite a few toothy 3-5 pound trout plus the occasional striped bass...which can easily go over 30 pounds. Many of them are sold on Bass Pro's P-line, whcih now also comes in flourocarbon. I've used P-line for years for spinning reels and have nothing but praise for it. I've picked up a few boxes of 300-yd Flourocarbon P-line in 4 and 6 pound for big streamer fishing. I'm looking forward to assessing its merits this year. Yes, I grew up Bass Fishing. For little trout stuff I am also sold on Frog Hair.

Brett
Brett
Novice entomologist, fly-tyer and photographer
Jlh42581
Milesburg, Pa

Posts: 24
Jlh42581 on Jan 9, 2007January 9th, 2007, 4:38 am EST
tippet: rio

Leader: maxima
Jeremy
Martinlf
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Palmyra PA

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Martinlf on Jan 9, 2007January 9th, 2007, 12:18 pm EST
Jeremy, when I buy a knotless leader, I usually buy a Rio, originally based on recommendations from folks I trust and now on my own good luck with them. I also tie up a lot of leaders, using different forumlae. What do you like most about the Rio tippet? It seems very supple to me, perhaps like the old DaiRiki Velvet that was marketed for spring creek fishing. Have you tried Frog Hair?
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell
Martinlf
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Palmyra PA

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Martinlf on Feb 14, 2007February 14th, 2007, 2:37 pm EST
Digging around today I found several spools of Enrico Puglisi monofilament tippet that Jeff of the Delaware River Club recommended to me for fishing tiny olives (Acentrella--the old Pseudos) there in the summer. Its strength rating is phenomenal; the 7X is rated at 3.4 lbs. test (Frog Hair 6X is rated at 3.7). The Puglisi 6X is 4.4 lbs. Since I'm shifting back to mono from fluoro, partly due to this thread, partly due to Art Scheck's great book and his observations on knots, I was pleased to rediscover this stuff. Jeff sold it to me for 3.95 a year or so ago, and that's another advantage over Frog Hair. Has anyone used the Enrico Puglisi tippet material? I'll certainly be giving it a good test this coming season, but would appreciate any comments from someone familiar with it.
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell
Fly_Fisher
Colorado

Posts: 1
Fly_Fisher on Feb 24, 2007February 24th, 2007, 10:55 am EST
Been tying knotless leaders with Orvis Super Strong leader and tippet material for about 30 years.

Several years ago, when I was a research technician, I had access to an Instron tensile testing instrument. I tested several brands of tippet material. I mic'ed all the tippet material and found Orvis Super Strong was the only material that listed the actual diameter. Most of the other brands measured .002" to .003" larger than stated, a couple were only .001" larger than advertised. When tensile tested against like diameter, Orvis SS was consistently 25 - 30 % stronger. It's not strength (blood knot) was also stronger. So if Orvis Super Strong "feels" like it's stronger, it is.
Fly Fisher
Troutnut
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Bellevue, WA

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Troutnut on Feb 24, 2007February 24th, 2007, 12:57 pm EST
Been tying knotless leaders


I guess I'm confused about the definition of a knotless leader... how does one tie something with no knots?
Jason Neuswanger, Ph.D.
Troutnut and salmonid ecologist
CouxJoe
Greenville, SC

Posts: 5
CouxJoe on Mar 19, 2007March 19th, 2007, 3:30 am EDT
I tie my own leaders with maxima. I've tried using umpqua tippet and was THOROUGHLY disappointed. The knot(s) would constantly slip. When out of state once I forgot my lines so I stopped by the local tackle supply to make do... I picked up some trilene (lol blasphemy) in .005 in dia or 6x (unmarked). I haven't stopped using it sense. I couldn't be happier with knot and tensile strength.
Stanislav
Bulgaria

Posts: 22
Stanislav on Mar 19, 2007March 19th, 2007, 4:05 am EDT
For knotless leaders I use Rio, and Cortland Precision. For tippet also use Rio powerflex and flurocarbon. In BG we don`t have Frog hair and Orvis, but I see there are too many good reports about them so, I`ll order some to try them.
The life is too short to fish a bad fly
Martinlf
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Palmyra PA

Posts: 3047
Martinlf on Mar 19, 2007March 19th, 2007, 5:57 am EDT
Very interesting responses. Of course, it makes sense that any good monofilament should make fine tippet material. Stan, how do you like the Powerflex for tippets? I've used it some for leader bodies, but not a lot for tippet as I was using Fluoroflex Plus then. I believe the Powerflex is supposed to be a very soft and flexible tippet material, good for longer drifts on spring creeks. I'm also very curious about Enrico Puglisi tippet. Has anyone had any experience with it?
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell
RleeP
NW PA - Pennsylvania's Glacial Pothole Wonderland

Posts: 398
RleeP on Mar 19, 2007March 19th, 2007, 11:00 am EDT
Well, nothing like dating myself...

Back in the days when men were men and most of the women were too, my first favorite was Cortland's Nylorfi. Then I went to something called Aeon and it was awful. Then came the Iranian hostage crisis and disco and the end of my first marriage, and well, I'll just save everybody the rest of that and talk about today...:)

Right now, I'm mostly fishing regular Rio (non-flouro)at the tippet and I'm pretty happy with it. I'm also pretty fond of SS and it was my fav for a long time, partly because I was working in an Orvis shop and got deals. Other than the tippet section and the butt, I'm not real picky about the intermediate sections and I tend to use what I have around. Lately, that has been a mix of Orvis-SS and the older Climax (badged as Cabela's..) from say .013 down to .007. The next big thing for me in these middle sections is probably going to be the White River stuff from Bass Pro. It's cheap and turns over fairly well. I'm not picky..

For a long time, I fished mostly Maxima butts and all other sections down to about .013. But lately, I've been buying Bass pro knotless leaders (usually 9' 3X) that I cut back and tie on to PRN. They're cheap and pretty stiff in the butt. I don't know who makes their mono. When they get to the point where I'm adding anything larger than about 1X, I take a new one out of the package and use the old one for a bass leader.

Did I mention that I'm cheap?
Flybyknight
Milton, DE

Posts: 82
Flybyknight on Mar 19, 2007March 19th, 2007, 12:07 pm EDT
I tie my own leaders, presently using Maxima because as dia. goes down, suppleness goes up, which results in a good turn over, a gentile decent, and a drag free tippet extend.
Fluoro was an anathama to my presentation ability.
I find a direct relationship between suppleness and break strength(corrected to psi)the stiffer, the weaker.
I'll use blood knots down to .008" but from there its the surgeon knot only. (100% knot strength)
Miking leader material has always resulted in a thicker than stated gauge.
The best leader and tippet materials are nylon copolymers, not straight mono, because a smart Che can optimize properties by formulation. That is why last year,s super star is today's also ran.
I am always looking for something better because I trash all of my tippet material at season,s end.
Dick
Lightly on the dimpling eddy fling;
the hypocritic fly's unruffled wing.
Thomas Scott
Martinlf
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Palmyra PA

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Martinlf on Mar 19, 2007March 19th, 2007, 1:43 pm EDT
Here's an email response to me from someone who sells Enrico Pugilisi tippet:

I have used it for several years and feel that it is by far the best on the market and is much stronger. I was the US Dist for Aeon for years and specialize in fishing small dries on large wild trout. All my customers swear by it. Dave Inks dave@waterstrider.com
www.waterstrider.com
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell

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