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Artistic view of a Male Pteronarcys californica (Pteronarcyidae) (Giant Salmonfly) Stonefly Adult from the Gallatin River in Montana
Salmonflies
Pteronarcys californica

The giant Salmonflies of the Western mountains are legendary for their proclivity to elicit consistent dry-fly action and ferocious strikes.

Dorsal view of a Zapada cinctipes (Nemouridae) (Tiny Winter Black) Stonefly Nymph from the Yakima River in Washington
Nymphs of this species were fairly common in late-winter kick net samples from the upper Yakima River. Although I could not find a key to species of Zapada nymphs, a revision of the Nemouridae family by Baumann (1975) includes the following helpful sentence: "2 cervical gills on each side of midline, 1 arising inside and 1 outside of lateral cervical sclerites, usually single and elongate, sometimes constricted but with 3 or 4 branches arising beyond gill base in Zapada cinctipes." This specimen clearly has the branches and is within the range of that species.
27" brown trout, my largest ever. It was the sub-dominant fish in its pool. After this, I hooked the bigger one, but I couldn't land it.
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PaulRoberts
PaulRoberts's profile picture
Colorado

Posts: 1776
PaulRoberts on Jun 25, 2016June 25th, 2016, 5:38 pm EDT
I don't believe it's a tiger. I've seen browns with such elongated spots; Some I've described as "marbled". I don't see any char characteristics in that fish at all.

The best indicator of hatchery origin is warping in the fins -the dorsal in particular. This occurs due to crowding in the hatchery raceways. Fish stocked as fingerlings often do not have such warping though.

In the first image the dorsal looks pretty straight, which would lead me to think it's possibly a wild fish as most streams that are stocked are stocked with catchable-sized yearlings that almost always show warping. The other (lower) fins show slight warping. This could be due to hatchery origin (with age fins can grow out some) or to contact with substrate at a particular lie. Often streams with lots of wood cover produce fin wear -abrasions and eventual warping in older fish. Your fish is older indicated by rounded fins, large head, and prominent kype (a male). He also shows an abraded ventral lobe of the tail -abraded by substrate.

That's what I can offer: Pure brown, and can't rule out either wild or hatchery origin. It could be that the genes for that spotting pattern are prevalent in certain PA hatcheries, esp considering what the biologist said. You could call some hatcheries and ask if this is so. You could also find out if your stream is stocked with fingerlings, or stocked at all.
PSUturf91
Central PA

Posts: 9
PSUturf91 on Jun 26, 2016June 26th, 2016, 9:16 am EDT
At the end of the day it doesn't really matter it's origins. It makes me feel more accomplished as a fisherman to catch big old gnarly looking fish, but if that's the only reason I participated in this great sport, I'm in it for the wrong reasons. The biggest reason for my interest in this fishes origins are because I'm trying to decide whether or not I want to fish out 300+ for a repro. If this is a wild fish, it is certainly a very unique one worth displaying on my wall, but if it just a common hatchery fish I am satisfied with the pictures I have taken... what do you all think?
Wbranch
Wbranch's profile picture
York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2635
Wbranch on Jun 26, 2016June 26th, 2016, 1:14 pm EDT
$300 is a ton of money. Get a bigger photograph enlargement like a 11" x 14" and a nice frame with no glare glass and take the rest of the money you save and take your wife, or significant other, out to a nice dinner.
Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.
PaulRoberts
PaulRoberts's profile picture
Colorado

Posts: 1776
PaulRoberts on Jun 26, 2016June 26th, 2016, 6:12 pm EDT
Can't help with the financial debate.

As to the "value" of the fish: Any fish -esp in a smaller stream- that hits 18" is a rare and impressive fish -one that figured something out. And that goes for holdovers too.
Oldredbarn
Oldredbarn's profile picture
Novi, MI

Posts: 2600
Oldredbarn on Jun 27, 2016June 27th, 2016, 6:10 am EDT
If this is a wild fish, it is certainly a very unique one worth displaying on my wall, but if it just a common hatchery fish I am satisfied with the pictures I have taken... what do you all think?



Since you're asking, Ben...the spawning potential of this buck suggests it should of been left in the "crick".

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
PSUturf91
Central PA

Posts: 9
PSUturf91 on Jun 27, 2016June 27th, 2016, 8:19 am EDT
It was left in the "crick". I'm considering a reproduction mount
Jmd123
Jmd123's profile picture
Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2474
Jmd123 on Jun 27, 2016June 27th, 2016, 10:42 am EDT
Spence, you have a habit of accusing fellow Troutnuts, including me, of killing fish...perch, OK I admit that, and rainbows from Reid Lake that are stocked and never get to breed. That's where I draw the line, even my bluegill & pumpkinseed get to live and grow for the future.

Jonathon

P.S. I think a reproduction mount, if you can afford it, is very cool.
No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...
CaseyP
CaseyP's profile picture
Arlington, VA/ Mercersburg, PA

Posts: 653
CaseyP on Jun 27, 2016June 27th, 2016, 12:09 pm EDT
get your mount and ask the maker to take a very good look at the dorsal fin in your photo...i think the stripes on the trailing edge of that fin say tiger trout to me!
glad you got such a good picture.
"You can observe a lot by watching." Yogi Berra
Bugrchkr
PA

Posts: 2
Bugrchkr on Jul 1, 2016July 1st, 2016, 4:06 pm EDT
PSUturf91- That is a brown trout. No doubt at all. I have caught hundreds, maybe thousands of browns with that "wormy" look like that. There is a PA state hatchery that produces brown trout that look like that.

Here are a few of them, and I think you may have seen them already...
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And finally....

This is a wild tiger trout...

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And these are stocked tiger trout...
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Hopefully after comparing with my photos, you can see the difference.
PaulRoberts
PaulRoberts's profile picture
Colorado

Posts: 1776
PaulRoberts on Jul 2, 2016July 2nd, 2016, 11:52 am EDT
Thanks for posting. Good info, great pics, awesome fish!
Oldredbarn
Oldredbarn's profile picture
Novi, MI

Posts: 2600
Oldredbarn on Jul 6, 2016July 6th, 2016, 7:56 am EDT
It was left in the "crick". I'm considering a reproduction mount


Sorry for the presumption on my part! Just spotted your response to me or I'd have apologized earlier.

-Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
Oldredbarn
Oldredbarn's profile picture
Novi, MI

Posts: 2600
Oldredbarn on Jul 6, 2016July 6th, 2016, 8:02 am EDT
No doubt at all. I have caught hundreds, maybe thousands of browns with that "wormy" look like that. There is a PA state hatchery that produces brown trout that look like that.


That is a lot of oddly marked trout. I have fished a long time and have never actually seen a "tiger" trout except in photos.

Spence
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
Bugrchkr
PA

Posts: 2
Bugrchkr on Jul 6, 2016July 6th, 2016, 6:10 pm EDT
Tigers used to be a popular novelty to stock in pennsylvania. Our fish commission discontinued stocking them about 10 years ago but private clubs still stock tigers. I have also caught a few wild tiger trout. All stocked browns around my area look like that, so to me, they are not odd.

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