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Lateral view of a Female Hexagenia limbata (Ephemeridae) (Hex) Mayfly Dun from the Namekagon River in Wisconsin
Hex Mayflies
Hexagenia limbata

The famous nocturnal Hex hatch of the Midwest (and a few other lucky locations) stirs to the surface mythically large brown trout that only touch streamers for the rest of the year.

Lateral view of a Psychodidae True Fly Larva from Mystery Creek #308 in Washington
This wild-looking little thing completely puzzled me. At first I was thinking beetle or month larva, until I got a look at the pictures on the computer screen. I made a couple of incorrect guesses before entomologist Greg Courtney pointed me in the right direction with Psychodidae. He suggested a possible genus of Thornburghiella, but could not rule out some other members of the tribe Pericomini.
27" brown trout, my largest ever. It was the sub-dominant fish in its pool. After this, I hooked the bigger one, but I couldn't land it.
Troutnut is a project started in 2003 by salmonid ecologist Jason "Troutnut" Neuswanger to help anglers and fly tyers unabashedly embrace the entomological side of the sport. Learn more about Troutnut or support the project for an enhanced experience here.

Uppersac has attached these 5 pictures to aid in identification. The message is below.
Uppersac
Mount Shasta, CA

Posts: 2
Uppersac on Dec 20, 2014December 20th, 2014, 11:11 am EST
Need help identifying this stonefly. I am located in Northern California, Siskiyou county. We get the salmon fly hatch and the golden stone hatch in the spring time, but this stonefly hatch happens in the fall. This hatch only happens on Burney creek
Brian Theriot
Northern California fly fishing guide
www.redhackleflyfishing.com
Millcreek
Healdsburg, CA

Posts: 344
Millcreek on Dec 24, 2014December 24th, 2014, 6:09 am EST
Hi Brian-

Although stonefly records are somewhat sparse for the area the only one I can come up with is Doroneuria baumanni. It fits the size, coloration and wing venation shown in your photos. Some photos and descriptions can be seen here: http://www.johnkreft.com/golden-stonefly-cousin-doroneuria-baumanni/ and here: https://journals.lib.byu.edu/spc/index.php/wnan/article/.../28244

Mark
"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"
-Albert Einstein
Uppersac
Mount Shasta, CA

Posts: 2
Uppersac on Dec 24, 2014December 24th, 2014, 10:21 am EST
Mark, thank you for identifying. No one could ever figure out the real name for that stonefly, but looks like you cleared it up for me.
Brian Theriot
Northern California fly fishing guide
www.redhackleflyfishing.com
Taxon
Taxon's profile picture
Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1311
Taxon on Dec 24, 2014December 24th, 2014, 11:09 am EST
Hi Brian-

1ncidentally, Doroneuria baumanni does indeed have a common name, which is Cascades Stone.

However, rather than it having been acquired via the fly fishing community, both it and all other N. American stonefly species known at the time, were assigned common names by an ad hoc group led by Dr. Bill Stark.
Best regards,
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
Millcreek
Healdsburg, CA

Posts: 344
Millcreek on Dec 24, 2014December 24th, 2014, 11:25 am EST
Brian-

You're welcome as far as the identification is concerned. Just remember that it's a guess.

Mark
"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"
-Albert Einstein
RiverKeeper
RiverKeeper's profile picture
Sisters, Oregon

Posts: 7
RiverKeeper on Dec 24, 2014December 24th, 2014, 2:19 pm EST
Thanks for sharing my website on the Doroneuria baumanni post.

And thanks to Roger for informing me of the common name - Cascades Stone. Can you give me a timeframe for when the name was given?

Thanks

John
RiverKeeper Flies
www.johnkreft.com
Taxon
Taxon's profile picture
Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1311
Taxon on Dec 24, 2014December 24th, 2014, 4:38 pm EST
Hi John-

Can you give me a timeframe for when the name was given?


Sure, the year was 1998, and here is a link to the Scientific Paper
Best regards,
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
Entoman
Entoman's profile picture
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Entoman on Dec 25, 2014December 25th, 2014, 6:36 am EST
Welcome to the forum!

The time of year suggests another possibility. Claassenia sabulosa (Short-winged Stone) is the only perlid well known for hatching in the Fall. The other genera of perlids are usually Spring and Summer emergers. The males have stubby wings well short of their abdomen tips. Even though the females have longer wings, the ones on your specimen (that I believe to be female) seem a little long. Is the anomaly the slightly longer wings or the time of year?

Fortunately, western perlids are relatively easy to identify. This can be done with the naked eye if any spcimens were retained. Check out our encyclopedia for info on how to do this. Are there any closeups of the head, associated male abdominal ventrals or some associated nymph dorsals?
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
Taxon
Taxon's profile picture
Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1311
Taxon on Dec 25, 2014December 25th, 2014, 12:14 pm EST
In case anyone is having trouble tracking with the posts in this (somewhat convoluted) thread, for purpose of adult stonefly comparison, the 1st image below is a cropped and slightly lightened version of the 1st photo from Uppersac (Brian Theriot's) id request.

And, the 2nd image below is a cropped version of the 1st photo from RiverKeeper (John Kreft's) wonderful blog, The Golden Stonefly Cousin – Doroneuria baumanni, which was (most helpfully) linked to in Millcreek (Mark Melton's) post.

Best regards,
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
RiverKeeper
RiverKeeper's profile picture
Sisters, Oregon

Posts: 7
RiverKeeper on Dec 25, 2014December 25th, 2014, 3:11 pm EST
I've got a couple of other pics I could post that weren't included in my blog, but since I'm new I'm not sure how to add .jpg files.
John
RiverKeeper Flies
www.johnkreft.com
Taxon
Taxon's profile picture
Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1311
Taxon on Dec 25, 2014December 25th, 2014, 7:24 pm EST
Hi John-

In order to add an image to an existing post, it must first be uploaded to a server somewhere, like on photobucket, or elsewhere.

Once the photo resides on a server, it's simply a matter of editing an existing post, and then inserting the web address of the image (surrounded by image begin and image end codes) wherever desired in the post.

For further clarification, please see Troutnut Forum Codes.
Best regards,
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
RiverKeeper
RiverKeeper's profile picture
Sisters, Oregon

Posts: 7
RiverKeeper on Dec 25, 2014December 25th, 2014, 8:09 pm EST
Thanks Roger...I'll give it a try...









These are additional pics of the Cascades Stone that weren't included in my blog post.

John
John
RiverKeeper Flies
www.johnkreft.com
Millcreek
Healdsburg, CA

Posts: 344
Millcreek on Dec 26, 2014December 26th, 2014, 5:46 am EST
John-

Those are nice pics. Not as good as the ones on the blog, but nice angles.

Mark
"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"
-Albert Einstein
RiverKeeper
RiverKeeper's profile picture
Sisters, Oregon

Posts: 7
RiverKeeper on Dec 26, 2014December 26th, 2014, 11:47 am EST
I agree Mark, which is why I didn't include them. Didn't know if they would be helpful here or not.

John
John
RiverKeeper Flies
www.johnkreft.com
PaulRoberts
PaulRoberts's profile picture
Colorado

Posts: 1776
PaulRoberts on Jan 6, 2015January 6th, 2015, 7:17 pm EST
This is just a great site.
RiverKeeper
RiverKeeper's profile picture
Sisters, Oregon

Posts: 7
RiverKeeper on Jul 19, 2015July 19th, 2015, 2:15 pm EDT
Here is a nymph I found a couple of days ago while kicknetting. I'm guessing it's Doroneuria baumanni Nymph that I wrote about in my RiverKeeper Flies blog post - The Golden Stonefly Cousin – Doroneuria baumanni (http://www.johnkreft.com/golden-stonefly-cousin-doroneuria-baumanni/)


John
RiverKeeper Flies
www.johnkreft.com
Taxon
Taxon's profile picture
Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1311
Taxon on Jul 19, 2015July 19th, 2015, 5:30 pm EDT
Hi John-

The link to the nymph photo need to be a url that ends with ".jpg".
Best regards,
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
RiverKeeper
RiverKeeper's profile picture
Sisters, Oregon

Posts: 7
RiverKeeper on Jul 19, 2015July 19th, 2015, 10:05 pm EDT
Thanks for the help Roger - I changed the image.
John
RiverKeeper Flies
www.johnkreft.com
Millcreek
Healdsburg, CA

Posts: 344
Millcreek on Jul 20, 2015July 20th, 2015, 7:00 am EDT
John-

If you kept the specimen it shouldn't be a problem to ID it. It's a Perlidae species. There are only a few in California. Hesperoperla and Claasenia have anal gills and it doesn't appear that yours does. Doroneuria and Calineuria can be separated by the following features. Doroneuria has the dorsum of body with median, longitudinal row of fine, silky setae. Calineuria does not have the dorsum of body with median, longitudinal row of fine, silky setae.
"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"
-Albert Einstein
RiverKeeper
RiverKeeper's profile picture
Sisters, Oregon

Posts: 7
RiverKeeper on Jul 22, 2015July 22nd, 2015, 4:02 pm EDT
Here are a couple more pics of the nymph...top and bottom:



John
RiverKeeper Flies
www.johnkreft.com

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