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Artistic view of a Male Pteronarcys californica (Pteronarcyidae) (Giant Salmonfly) Stonefly Adult from the Gallatin River in Montana
Salmonflies
Pteronarcys californica

The giant Salmonflies of the Western mountains are legendary for their proclivity to elicit consistent dry-fly action and ferocious strikes.

Dorsal view of a Neoleptophlebia (Leptophlebiidae) Mayfly Nymph from the Yakima River in Washington
Some characteristics from the microscope images for the tentative species id: The postero-lateral projections are found only on segment 9, not segment 8. Based on the key in Jacobus et al. (2014), it appears to key to Neoleptophlebia adoptiva or Neoleptophlebia heteronea, same as this specimen with pretty different abdominal markings. However, distinguishing between those calls for comparing the lengths of the second and third segment of the labial palp, and this one (like the other one) only seems to have two segments. So I'm stuck on them both. It's likely that the fact that they're immature nymphs stymies identification in some important way.
27" brown trout, my largest ever. It was the sub-dominant fish in its pool. After this, I hooked the bigger one, but I couldn't land it.
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Lam
Lancaster, PA

Posts: 81
Lam on Oct 6, 2007October 6th, 2007, 12:57 pm EDT
Isent my bro an email detailing my fishing trip this morning. I will just paste it here then I have some questions.


I fished the Tulpehocken today (near Reading, PA) on my way to get
> Kelly at Kutztown. I woke up before dawn and was on the stream by
> 7:00. There is a reliable trico fall in the morning. Size 22-27
> hooks. Unfortunately, it was really foggy and virtually no fish
> were rising. The fog kept the hatch and subsequent fall from
> happening at the usual time.
>
> I tried a few nymphs then put on a black bead head wooly bugger and
> caught a big rainbow. I estimate about 17 inches, very heavy. It
> didn't jump at all but it felt like I was trying to pull in a
> cinder block, I think the line wrapped around it for a while. The
> gill plates and head area were very bronze and shiny - almost
> iredescent. I never saw one quite that color before. I moved
> around a bit and then the trico hatch started. There were clouds
> of them. A short time later I saw the spinners floating all over
> the place and I expected the surface to boil with risers but
> nothing happened, I can't figure it out. I eventually went back to
> where I started and caught two more 12 inchers on a mickey finn.
>


Question 1 - do tricos hatch then fall shortly after or is what I witnessed today a hatch and a spinner fall from a previous hatch?

#2 - Why weren't the trout coming up, as they usually do, when the
river was littered with spinners?

#3 - was the fog responsible for the delay in the trico hatch?

#4 - are the trout so sensitive that because the fog delayed the hatch that it just threw them off and their "window of interest" passed?

Any input would be nice.

Lam
LittleJ
Hollidaysburg Pa

Posts: 251
LittleJ on Oct 6, 2007October 6th, 2007, 2:05 pm EDT
Lam,
I'm not sure the answer, but the same happened to me twice this fall, once on the little j and once on spruce. I attributed it to the water conditions. I figured with low water the fish are all stressed right now and less likely to "expose" themselves feeding on top. Again I don't if my thinking is correct so i'm interested to hear other comments.
Jeff
Taxon
Taxon's profile picture
Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1311
Taxon on Oct 6, 2007October 6th, 2007, 3:13 pm EDT
Question 1 - do tricos hatch then fall shortly after or is what I witnessed today a hatch and a spinner fall from a previous hatch?

Lam-

Tricorythodes male duns emerge before female duns. In hot weather, the males may emerge during non-daylight hours, any time from late evening to early morning. During cooler weather, the male duns are more likely to emerge early in the morning. This is followed by emergence of the female duns, often from dawn to mid-morning, or if the temperature is extremely cool, it may be delayed a few hours.

In any event, getting to your question, Tricorythodes duns molt to spinner stage after only several hours, so (at least) the females would be those that had emerged several hours earlier, often resulting in a spinner fall commencing while female dun emergence is still happening.

Having said that, there are no absolutes with regard to mayfly emergence behavior. So, exceptions to what would be considered customary emergence behavior do occur, likely the result of some condition(s) not favoring successful emergence, mating, and oviposition.
Best regards,
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
Martinlf
Martinlf's profile picture
Moderator
Palmyra PA

Posts: 3047
Martinlf on Oct 6, 2007October 6th, 2007, 4:14 pm EDT
Lam, where on the Tully were you fishing? I've had some good Trico fishing there, but haven't fished it this year, preferring to target wild browns in local spring creeks. As for the fish not coming up, on Spring Creek, according to Steve of Flyfisher's Paradise, the bigger fish stop rising to Tricos after being hooked a number of times. I suppose this could happen on the Tully. I did catch the biggest fish I ever landed on a Trico there, about four years ago. It was a pretty rainbow about 14 to 15 inches long. It jumped several times, and by a miracle I was able to land it on 7X. The water was low, but cold as they were releasing from the bottom of the dam. Fish were rising freely that day. See the older Trico thread here; I'll try to dig it up for you. Females may be hatching later in the morning now (the males typically hatch at night), and the spinner fall may be coming later as well.
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell
Quillgordon
Schuylkill County, PA.

Posts: 109
Quillgordon on Oct 7, 2007October 7th, 2007, 12:06 am EDT

#2 - Why weren't the trout coming up, as they usually do, when the
river was littered with spinners?

Lam,
Recently stocked fish are reluctant to come to the surface and feed. It takes time for 'stockies' to get accustomed to their new surroundings and the insects in that particulat stream.
Sometimes they are reluctant to feed at all, until they feel safe in their new home; especially after a 'rough ride ' in the hatchery truck.
IMHO.....
Flyfishing is a state of mind! .............. Q.g.

C/R........barbless
Lam
Lancaster, PA

Posts: 81
Lam on Oct 7, 2007October 7th, 2007, 2:35 am EDT
Louis, thanks for bumping the trico thread.

I was fishing at the water monitoring station (water works stretch) yesterday. The first time I fished that stretch.

Quillgordon, I ran into another fisherman yesterday and he said they had recently stocked (which I didn'tknow prior to going there), I think it was stocked last thursday (just a few days ago). If your theory is correct, that would explain the lack of activity.

Oh, I landed my first small mouth, accidentaly, on a mickey finn. It was about 4 inches long but my first fly rod smallie.
Quillgordon
Schuylkill County, PA.

Posts: 109
Quillgordon on Oct 7, 2007October 7th, 2007, 3:16 am EDT
Lam,
I was thinking about fishing it on Friday, but decided on fishing a stream closer to my home.
Did you see any other insect activity besides 'tricos' ?
Was it heavily fished ? Normally the 'Tully' gets fished hard!
What was the water temp. and water level ?

It's a nice stream, but I find it difficult to wade !

JK.















Flyfishing is a state of mind! .............. Q.g.

C/R........barbless
Martinlf
Martinlf's profile picture
Moderator
Palmyra PA

Posts: 3047
Martinlf on Oct 7, 2007October 7th, 2007, 9:50 am EDT
Lam, check at the Tulpehocken Creek Outfitters (they have a website) for stream conditions. Sometimes different parts of the stream fish better than others due to variations in water conditions, recent stockings, etc. Chad or Tony usually know what's going on and where to send you,and they're always happy to answer a call. I've had the waterworks fish very well at times, and other times it was dead. Most recently I've heard about good fishing near Paper Mill Road, but that was several months back. Caddis can be very good on the Tully, especially in the spring.
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell
Lam
Lancaster, PA

Posts: 81
Lam on Oct 7, 2007October 7th, 2007, 9:57 am EDT
The water temp was 68 and the depth was pretty low. I was only wearing hip boots, and at the deepest spot I was still about 4 inches from crotch level. I saw a few small cadis but nothing I would call a hatch, except for the tricos.

Again, I think the fog that hung on the river had something to do with lack of hatching. The fog didn't clear until about 10:00 or so. In the water works stretch there was the guy I met and kind of fished with, myself and one other guy who went down stream out of sight. There were fewer people than I normally see. AS I drove back down stream to catch 222 and head to Kutztown, I noticed more people, mostly around the "paper mill" section (as usual because the kakoosing creek dumps in cold water there). That was at 11:00am.

What aspect of the wading do you find difficult? So far, I haven't had a problem at least from a heavy flow. I have only fished it about 6 or 7 times now and each time the water level was very manageble. The bottom is mostly rocky and that presents opportunities for mis-steps, etc.

Hey louis,

I originally found my way around on the tully because of the maps that tco has on their web site. I should keep their number handy and call for the latest info. In this case I still would have gone because I was heading to Kutztown anyway but maybe I would have fished a different section. I had looked at the water works before but never tried it and was sort of set on it.

Thanks

lam
JOHNW
JOHNW's profile picture
Chambersburg, PA

Posts: 452
JOHNW on Oct 8, 2007October 8th, 2007, 11:45 am EDT
Lam,
I would almost guarentee that the fog affected the hatch, or more properly the spinner fall; which is what we trico nuts really savor.

With that extra humidity in the air the spiners did not dehydrate nearly as quickly as a clear dry day this means the spinners were able to hang out a little bit longer in their ephemeral dance. I have been told (and found it to be pretty reliable) that an air temp of 70* is the trigger for the fall to start.
Perhaps those who are more educated than I can verify or refute this.
JW
"old habits are hard to kill once you have gray in your beard" -Old Red Barn
Taxon
Taxon's profile picture
Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1311
Taxon on Oct 8, 2007October 8th, 2007, 8:51 pm EDT
John-

The following comment is strictly speculative, but after all, that's surely not unprecedented on this forum.

Anyway, my guess would be that the fog might have delayed the formation of mating swarms by the male imagos. They may simply have rested post-molt until they could see well enough to form them.
Best regards,
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com
JOHNW
JOHNW's profile picture
Chambersburg, PA

Posts: 452
JOHNW on Oct 9, 2007October 9th, 2007, 10:21 am EDT
Roger,
Would that be sort of like having your last drink around midnight so when closing time came around you were sure of what you were going home with?


As for the 70* trigger. Is it a legit statement. It was handed down to me a law but we all know how that is.

JW
"old habits are hard to kill once you have gray in your beard" -Old Red Barn
Taxon
Taxon's profile picture
Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1311
Taxon on Oct 10, 2007October 10th, 2007, 3:50 am EDT
John-

Would that be sort of like having your last drink around midnight so when closing time came around you were sure of what you were going home with?

Perhaps.

As for the 70* trigger. Is it a legit statement. It was handed down to me a law but we all know how that is.

I believe so. However, 68 degrees is the stream temperature Rick Hafele suggests as being the trigger for western Tricorythodes emergences.
Best regards,
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com

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