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3. cheap rods, high performance, Page 2

they have made people believe that fly fishing is like golf, and that only the very rich have the means to be able to take part in the sport.
nothing could be further from the truth of course, as I have known old hillbilly's who spent their whole lives fishing on the cheapest rods that they could get their hands on,(because you have to save most of your $$ for beer.) and landed ten times more big fish(for the area)than I can ever hope to...
I didn't grow up having much money,(a trend that continues.)
but that is one of the reasons I became so addicted to fishing, and spent alot of my time as a youngster at the local creeks and rivers, just learning about the habits of the local aquatic life, which left me with enough knowledge of fish behaviour to be able to catch them when the happy day finally arrived and I could afford to buy my first "real flyrod"...to me this sport is more about knowing how to read the river than anything else, and without those skills the best rod in the world is about as useful as one of those new pen rod gadgets on t.v...


tight lines to all...

Gene, perhaps some of the association of high cost with quality comes from the fact that the high-priced rod companies push the design envelope, and then recoup their investment, not unlike the pharmaceutical companies. remember what the first Walkmans cost? any cheaper copies are going to be pretty poor for a while until the moderate-price companies catch up, but this thread proves that they do catch up.
and i second the motion for Sierra Trading Post. we are now the most obscenely well-equipped anglers on the block thanks to them. no more $100 Powells, but there are some nifty deals there. caveat: you may not get the warranty card with the rod, as some are seconds and others closeouts, but ST will refund your money if you're ever not happy.
Jason, if i've overstepped the non-commercial rules, please delete this post.

The price of rods and all equipment is based on marketing!! Individuals with MBA's, trained capitalist, know how to influence opinion. Therefore, Somebody gets wealthy selling a product 3x, or more, it's worth. As informed consumers, it is incumbent to make wise choices. With the astronomical growth of the industry over the past decade, new, unknowledgeable people are influenced by the marketing. The prices continue o increase until level off, where in this case, fewer new fisherman take up the sport. That leaves the wise ones left who know better than to pay $600 for a graphite rod!

...I have bought most of my high end rods used, and on the cheap form guys who "had to have" the latest and greatest every year.

I also know a VP of a major rod company sorta well, and we've discussed the impact on their business.

The chinese are great at copying an existing consumer good. I see this in my daily job and my fishing rods.

The major US high end manufacturers do in fact spend lots of money on R&D, and they do try to recoup that cost. It is also told to me that they make huge volume buys of graphite materials once a year- when they are available. it is very hard to get the primo stuff from what I am told.

How it was explained to me is that a major company releases a top notch rod and immediately the foreign companies set out to make a knockoff. anyone interested in vintage guitars knows this exactly.

This all said, sage DOES in fact own redington, so im sure there is a plan to corner low end market and there is some information sharing there.

bottom line is- for you an me (who are po) we can buy more cheaper rods and have great performance and warranties. at the expense of US design and materials. Im not so sure this is a good thing.

I'd hate to see some of our us makers get sold off or out of business.

dave

Wow this is illuminating... having owned one flyrod for my entire life, I have been thinking recently of splurging on a Winston... but I think I'll hold off and check out some of the alternatives mentioned here.

The simple fact of the matter is, if you know how to use the fishing tackle you have, you are going to catch fish. After all, FISH don't give a damn how much you paid for that rod, reel, or line. All one needs to do is convince the fish to bite and fight it well. Everything else is just window dressing.

To the fellow who made the comment about pricing fly fishing out of the range of average folks (like me), I have a sad story to relate. Last year I was in Cabelas looking at fly rods to replace two I had broken the previous year (yes, I am hard on rods - but I almost never broke any fiberglass), and I ended up purchasing a Clear Creek and a Three Forks rod, both less than $100 with rod tube. A young man and his girlfriend wandered into the fly rod racks and began checking prices. Unfortunately, he started with the Sage rods and then went on to some other high-priced models by Cabelas and others. "Geez, this stuff is so expensive!" I now regret not grabbing that young man by the shoulder and saying, "Hey, look at these two rods that I am buying!"

Both rods have served me very well, and yes, Konchu, I really love the Clear Creek 7'-3 wt./CSR #1 combination. I highly recommend it to anyone looking for, as I like to say, a "small-stream special". Right now I am fishing it for bluegill and smallmouth feeding on mayflies and caddisflies in the Huron River (Island Park stretch - right behind my apartment so it's just too easy). The smallmouth are not large - average 8-10", though I've caught two 13-inchers in the past year. Well, they sure dance nice on that combo! And the bluegill fight well too, especially the bigger ones (6-7 1/2"). And here's something that never happened before: an 8" rock bass hit an elk-hair caddis. I've caught loads on streamers and (especially) wooly buggers, but never on a dryfly.

I'll be shopping for a 7-8 weight rod (preferably 4-piece) and a reel with a good tough drag for salmon & steelhead this fall. Any suggestions from the group?

Jonathon

"There's nothing an agnostic can't do if he really doesn't know if he believes in anything or not" - Monty Python

To Davez:

There will always be a market for high-priced American rods (and reels). So long as wealthy people continue to fly fish, they will be buying the absolute latest cutting-edge technology to impress their friends (and us normal folks) when they go fishing. When you make millions, $700 for a fly rod is a drop in the ocean. Ever heard of the world's only all-titanium fly reel? (I think it's made by Hardy, not known for low-end tackle.) It's a steal at $9,700...

I will never be able to afford any of this on my field biologist salary, and I think that's the point that the folks on this webaite are making. As far as Chinese-made rods are concerned, let the buyer beware, given all of the recent news about quality control in manufacturing over there! (Although I own a telescope made in China, and it has really surprised me with both the optics and durability.)

Tight lines and heavy hatches!

Jonathon

I have to be honest, my brother and father have both made fly fishing their life, so when I gave the sport a shot 3 years ago, it was with the very best equipment. I have since purchased 3 rods on my own, and this is what I have found. I "inherited" a Sage XP 5 wt. I then purchased a TFO 3wt, which is simple, basic and cast's relatively well. It has also broken twice while playing small fish. My go-to rod is an Elkhorn 4/5 wt..... There's no comparison, it's quality and finish is flawless. at $129, it is, for me, more accurate and faster than the XP. I will load up to a 6 wt line on it for streamers and and down to a 4 wt for delicate, small dries. Also, it's made in the US, which is a plus in my book. I haven't found another rod within $300 of this price that is at all comparable, and the next rod I buy will be an Elkhorn

jmd123- I posted it earlier, but try out tfo, 9'6" 8 wt Haven't tried it yet on steelhead but i had it at the beach last week for redfish&speckled and it was great. Try a cabelas SR reel with it, it's basically the same thing as a ross momentum minus about $200
jeff

LittleJ, I've been thinking about Cabelas' SR reel - looks like it does have a good drag. And I will check into the TFO rod you mentioned - I believe Cabelas carries their full line, at least that's what it looks like in their 2007 Flyfishing catalog. Thanks for the advice!

Jonathon

BRTK, buddy i don't know why you arepretending to be broke, we both know you made a ton of money being a rapper a few years back, and now your reel is jewel encrusted and made of platinum.

PLATINUM??? How about the Zane Ti by Hardy (see my post above)?? It would be a hell of a lot lighter than platinum, that's for sure...

Jonathon

"BRTK, buddy i don't know why you arepretending to be broke, we both know you made a ton of money being a rapper a few years back, and now your reel is jewel encrusted and made of platinum."

Thanks, BRTK, for putting the bling back in flyfishing. Do you find your flyline gets caught in your medallions? Happens to me all the time. And on bright days I have to tuck 'em in so I don't spook the fish. But I try to keep it real for the most part, represent my peeps, cap a few fish, you know.

-Shawn

I must admit that I have done quite a bit of rapping in my day, but more wrapping.(I especially like wrapping hotdogs with bacon and then cooking them in the broiler until crispy on the outside)...

which is kindof funny because Ieatimago put me onto that steez...

-buddy

wether you are wraping rubber bands around your bankrolls or rapping on streamside for the mountain diva's your medalion does indeed get in the way, its great to see shawn is representing his set too with his bling.

but to not get off topic has that 79$ orvis arrived yet?
and
i have a deep fryer now so its bacon wrapped skrimp next time!

the orvis is not here yet but I'm hoping that by the time it gets here the temp will have dipped down a little...
it's been too hot to even try to fish lately...
I also have got a lead as to where I may be able to make my own split boo rod under the instruction of a reputable local maker...
hopefully if that goes through and I learn the craft I'll be able to slang enough to get the platinum fronts I been wanting for ever...

and yes I too am glad to hear that shawn is down to bust a cap in a fish ass every once in a while...but shawn, watch out for Ieatimago cause scaring the fish ain't the only reason you gotta tuck your chain in P.A. if you know what I mean...that guy is from ice t's hood...

stay flossy

all im saying is, i know you stole my sein net, or "cold jacked me" as you would put it.

haha actually you left it in my truck, but you can tell yourself whatever you need to to get through those chilly PA nights...

eBay.......eBay...........eBay!! I can't believe no on mentioned eBay. or Craigslist even. I own 3 Sage's, (2 DS2's /1 SP) a St Croix Imperial, and recently (got it today) a Redington SS (super sport 8'6" 5 wt.) I bought one of the DS' new ( w/ disc. from fly shop friend). The rest were used or new from eBay. The Redington retails for $449.. my cost? $179 inc shipping...BRAND NEW! It was a salesman sample rod. The DS', SP and St Croix were all around $100... Same with reels.. just got a Galvan OB-1 (Retail $270) for $140 and a Redington SVII for $49 retails for $100. Redington makes great reels in their CDL, CD and SV models from $100-$239. I will NEVER pay $500 for a rod or reel!!

Glad I found your forum!! I say get decent gear, learn to use it well, know the hatches and the water and you'll consistently catch fish.

I purchased a 7'6" #4 "Heritage" rod for my 9 year old daughter. Ipurchased the intro line Orvis model reel (clearwater?) for it. The combo is excellent and the price was right. When my daughter isn't fishing with me, I use it a lot.