Artistic view of a Male Pteronarcys californica (Pteronarcyidae) (Giant Salmonfly) Stonefly Adult from the Gallatin River in Montana

Salmonflies
Pteronarcys californica

The giant Salmonflies of the Western mountains are legendary for their proclivity to elicit consistent dry-fly action and ferocious strikes.

Stream photos

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Sweltsa (Sallfly) Stonefly Nymph Sweltsa (Sallfly) Stonefly Nymph

Dorsal view of a Sweltsa (Chloroperlidae) (Sallfly) Stonefly Nymph from the Yakima River in Washington

This species was fairly abundant in a February sample of the upper Yakima.

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27" brown trout, my largest ever. It was the sub-dominant fish in its pool. After this, I hooked the bigger one, but I couldn't land it.

Troutnut is a project started in 2003 by salmonid ecologist Jason "Troutnut" Neuswanger to help anglers and fly tyers unabashedly embrace the entomological side of the sport. Learn more about Troutnut or support the project for an enhanced experience here.

Most Overrated Fly, Page 2

Feathers5
Posts: 287

Feathers5 on Dec 1, 2015December 1st, 2015, 5:07 am EST

I'll play along. The one fly I've never done good with is a Copper John. I developed a lack of confidence in it, which is a key point. I'm of the opinion that if you have confidence in any fly it works much better. I believe, too, that if a fish is in an eating mood, it doesn't matter much what you present it. If you present any fly (nymph) with a natural drift, in the proper place, at the proper time, your odds are good for a hook up. Sometimes, I believe, these are the deciding factors, more so than the name of the fly you are using. JMO

Planettrout

Los Angeles, CA / Pullman, WA

Posts: 53

Planettrout on Dec 1, 2015December 1st, 2015, 6:39 am EST

I've never seen a nymph with a red, or some other color, "hot spot" tied in back, or front, of the thorax. The hot spot seems to be very popular with the Czech nymph crowd.

http://www.troutnut.com/topic/7895/Hendrickson-Ventral

"Hot spots" may be used with Buggers,Caddis Larve & Pupa, May Fly nymphs, Scuds or anything else one's imagination can come up with.

[image< />

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Use them for tags, collars or in the mid section of a pattern...

[image< />

I prefer using Datum Glo-Brite Floss for "Hot Spots" but will use the Fl. colors from UTC and Veevus on smaller patterns...

http://hareline.com/gb.html

Try it on some the aforementioned "unproductive" patterns...:P

PT/TB

Daughter to Father: "How many arms do you have, how many fly rods do you need?"

http://planettrout.wordpress.com/

Crepuscular

Boiling Springs, PA

Posts: 920

Crepuscular on Dec 1, 2015December 1st, 2015, 9:22 am EST

this thread seems to have lost it's way. perhaps that's my fault. But the original post by Outdoors asked not what worked for you but what didn't, although it was supposed to be a proven fish catcher...just saying.

Jmd123

Oscoda, MI

Posts: 2474

Jmd123 on Dec 1, 2015December 1st, 2015, 9:35 am EST

I remember some posts from a few years ago where someone complained that the Woolly Bugger never did anything for them...which, of course, has worked extremely well for me...

Jonathon

No matter how big the one you just caught is, there's always a bigger one out there somewhere...

Smallflyguy
Posts: 17

Smallflyguy on Dec 1, 2015December 1st, 2015, 9:42 am EST

If you want to fill a fly box, with the most overrated flies, just walk into any fly shop and ask what fly to buy.

Deception is my art

Planettrout

Los Angeles, CA / Pullman, WA

Posts: 53

Planettrout on Dec 2, 2015December 2nd, 2015, 4:21 am EST

Here... I'll take it off the rails and make it completely lost. Spence asked that I provide the materials for the above Jig Pattern:

[image< />

Materials UV2 HOLO COPPER FIRE JIG…

HOOK: Umpqua (Hanak) C403 BL, #16 or Dohiku HDJ #18
THREAD: Tiemco 16/0, Brown or Black
WEIGHT: .010 lead, wraps behind bead,4-5 ...secure with thread and Zap-A-Gap
TAG HS: Veevus 14/0, Fl. Orange thread - Coat with Hard As Hull
TAIL: Coq De Leon, Dark Speckled
ABDOMEN: Sulky Holloshimmer, Copper - Coat with Hard As Hull
THORAX: 70% Fire Star Dub, Copper Fire / 20% UV2 Dub Enhancer, Dark
COLLAR HS: Veevus 14/0, Fl. Orange - Coat with Hard As Hull
BEAD: Copper Tungsten Slotted 3/32"

My point was that ANY so-called ineffective pattern that doesn't produce well for a particular person can be made to work...the standard Prince was never a good pattern for me until it went Psycho...

PT/TB

Daughter to Father: "How many arms do you have, how many fly rods do you need?"

http://planettrout.wordpress.com/

Feathers5
Posts: 287

Feathers5 on Dec 2, 2015December 2nd, 2015, 5:09 am EST

Here... I'll take it off the rails and make it completely lost. Spence asked that I provide the materials for the above Jig Pattern:

[image< />

Materials UV2 HOLO COPPER FIRE JIG…

HOOK: Umpqua (Hanak) C403 BL, #16 or Dohiku HDJ #18
THREAD: Tiemco 16/0, Brown or Black
WEIGHT: .010 lead, wraps behind bead,4-5 ...secure with thread and Zap-A-Gap
TAG HS: Veevus 14/0, Fl. Orange thread - Coat with Hard As Hull
TAIL: Coq De Leon, Dark Speckled
ABDOMEN: Sulky Holloshimmer, Copper - Coat with Hard As Hull
THORAX: 70% Fire Star Dub, Copper Fire / 20% UV2 Dub Enhancer, Dark
COLLAR HS: Veevus 14/0, Fl. Orange - Coat with Hard As Hull
BEAD: Copper Tungsten Slotted 3/32"

My point was that ANY so-called ineffective pattern that doesn't produce well for a particular person can be made to work...the standard Prince was never a good pattern for me until it went Psycho...

PT/TB

Go to Planettrout's blog. There are plenty of patterns to pique one's interest with and without hot spots. I think there's something for everyone on the blog.

Outdoors198
Posts: 27

Outdoors198 on Dec 2, 2015December 2nd, 2015, 7:57 am EST

this thread seems to have lost it's way. perhaps that's my fault. But the original post by Outdoors asked not what worked for you but what didn't, although it was supposed to be a proven fish catcher...just saying.

I appreciate your attempt to get the thread back on track but I think it is truly lost. ;)

Oldredbarn

Novi, MI

Posts: 2600

Oldredbarn on Dec 2, 2015December 2nd, 2015, 8:50 am EST

Thanks Tim! I'll let you know how it goes next season. :)

Couple quick questions, after Bruce sent me to your site. On those smaller midges, like Charlie's JuJu etc, how do you fish those? Are they fished below another weighted nymph?

Also. The midge patterns with the "wing" out over the front of the hook eye like Quigley's Cripple...What does that represent to the trout in your opinion?

Oh! Damn! We were talking about "over rated" flies weren't we...Sorry! For me I haven't had as much luck as I would of hoped with some of my "experimental" flies...Ones I have created for a particular situation that may actually only occur in my own mind and not ever on the river...A guide friend of mine is always asking me "When are you going to fish those experiments of yours, damn it?!" They are so particular I never get around to tossing them. I have been carrying them around forever just like the wonderful looking undisturbed boxes of nymphs I carry and never fish...Right Bruce? :)

Spence

"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood

PaulRoberts

Colorado

Posts: 1776

PaulRoberts on Dec 2, 2015December 2nd, 2015, 10:15 am EST

For me I haven't had as much luck as I would of hoped with some of my "experimental" flies...Ones I have created for a particular situation that may actually only occur in my own mind and not ever on the river...

Ah! And on topic too! Yes, those experimental flies. I suppose we all have our share of those. Sometimes they work out as planned, sometimes in spite of themselves, and sometimes they just bomb, often for unforeseen reasons that has more to do with water than the fish. Bummer when the fish don't get to see what I had in mind :).

Planettrout

Los Angeles, CA / Pullman, WA

Posts: 53

Planettrout on Dec 2, 2015December 2nd, 2015, 11:26 am EST

Thanks Tim! I'll let you know how it goes next season. :)

Couple quick questions, after Bruce sent me to your site. On those smaller midges, like Charlie's JuJu etc, how do you fish those? Are they fished below another weighted nymph?

Also. The midge patterns with the "wing" out over the front of the hook eye like Quigley's Cripple...What does that represent to the trout in your opinion?

Oh! Damn! We were talking about "over rated" flies weren't we...Sorry! For me I haven't had as much luck as I would of hoped with some of my "experimental" flies...Ones I have created for a particular situation that may actually only occur in my own mind and not ever on the river...A guide friend of mine is always asking me "When are you going to fish those experiments of yours, damn it?!" They are so particular I never get around to tossing them. I have been carrying them around forever just like the wonderful looking undisturbed boxes of nymphs I carry and never fish...Right Bruce? :)

Spence

Spence... I am supposing you are talking about "Scotty's Midge" which is a pattern that was developed at Craig Matthew's Blue Ribbon flies. I have seen it tied on both TMC 206 BL and on TMC 2488 hooks. I prefer the TMC 2488. Anything that Craig ties with a Zelon shuck is either an emerger or cripple. This is a flat water pattern and the wing hangs in the meniscus with the abdomen and shuck below. I generally use Hydraphobe as the floatant on the bottom of the wing only.

This is Hydrophobe which is the best floatant I have ever found, made in France and currently unavailable:

[image< />

On Midge patterns like Charlie's, I fish them as the point fly behind a heavily weighted tungsten attractor pattern. I use Twist-ons and not lead shot for additional weight on the leader and tippet. I generally want Midge Larva and Pupa within 6" of the bottom. In most of the Eastern Sierra tailwater I fish, that is where the Trout are usually found. I use floating midge patterns only when I observe Trout "sipping"...

PT/TB

Daughter to Father: "How many arms do you have, how many fly rods do you need?"

http://planettrout.wordpress.com/

Smallflyguy
Posts: 17

Smallflyguy on Dec 2, 2015December 2nd, 2015, 4:23 pm EST

At the risk of being banned may I present:

http://dsflyfishing.com/obama-approves-new-obama-caddis-pupa/

Deception is my art

Martinlf

Moderator
Palmyra PA

Posts: 3047

Martinlf on Dec 2, 2015December 2nd, 2015, 7:41 pm EST

Small, the Obama fly is one of the most realistic I've seen in a while. It doesn't always produce, but it's much better than the Bush midge, which comes untied too easily and leaves you holding an empty tippet, or the Cheney streamer, which has been found to contain toxic materials and which often kills. I'm waiting for the Trump fly. Lots of flash but no substance. You wouldn't happen to be fishing one of those, would you?

"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell

Roguerat

Posts: 456

Roguerat on Dec 3, 2015December 3rd, 2015, 1:54 am EST

On really thin ice here...

I've tied the Trump fly but had trouble getting the right shade of bleached hair and perfecting the comb-over effect...maybe it was from the wrong end of the horse?

please don't ban me for this..early morning, my coffee hasn't kicked in, too much political rhetoric clouding my judgement, not thinking straight!

Anon. aka RR

TNEAL
GRAYLING. MICHIGAN

Posts: 278

TNEAL on Dec 3, 2015December 3rd, 2015, 2:49 am EST

I don't know about overrated, but there are two dry flies originated near Michigan's AuSable that are bot considerably superior to the very famous Adams. One is the Roberts Drake; the other is the Borchers Special, originally tied Catskill style but now mainly parachute. The Roberts Drake is also parachute style. This, is, of course mop, but many agree with this assessment. Charlie Kroll, Fred Bear's son-in-law told me the Borchers was the single best fly he had ever used. This from a man who caught brookies in excess of 10 lbs on a fly.

Wbranch

York & Starlight PA

Posts: 2635

Wbranch on Dec 3, 2015December 3rd, 2015, 5:32 am EST

This from a man who caught brookies in excess of 10 lbs on a fly.

During the 20th century?

Catskill fly fisher for fifty-five years.

TNEAL
GRAYLING. MICHIGAN

Posts: 278

TNEAL on Dec 3, 2015December 3rd, 2015, 5:53 am EST

yes... 1970's... I asked him if he had fished all the world's trout streams and he said no, just the good ones.... He had one 24' (8.5 lbs) mounted... resembled the blade of a canoe paddle....

Martinlf

Moderator
Palmyra PA

Posts: 3047

Martinlf on Dec 3, 2015December 3rd, 2015, 6:02 am EST

Rogue, you are right. The Trump fly is not tied with hair from the mane, but from the other end.

"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell

Roguerat

Posts: 456

Roguerat on Dec 3, 2015December 3rd, 2015, 6:23 am EST

!

I'll have to give my non-confidence fly some thought, there are some I throw a lot more often than others but sooner or later they all might hook something- at the right time and in the right place.

I'd guess its the Prince Nymph. I don't even like the way it LOOKS...

Roguerat

PaulRoberts

Colorado

Posts: 1776

PaulRoberts on Dec 3, 2015December 3rd, 2015, 4:18 pm EST

Ditto on the Prince Nymph. I could not possibly fish such a concoction, even though I know it catches fish. I'm pretty much a DIY kind of guy anyway, so I never had to consider it. Gives me chills just thinking about it though.

The Prince lovers here should not be offended since this whole thread is about subjectivity. What the difference is between bleached white biots and a "hot spot" I'm not really certain.