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Lateral view of a Male Baetis (Baetidae) (Blue-Winged Olive) Mayfly Dun from Mystery Creek #43 in New York
Blue-winged Olives
Baetis

Tiny Baetis mayflies are perhaps the most commonly encountered and imitated by anglers on all American trout streams due to their great abundance, widespread distribution, and trout-friendly emergence habits.

Dorsal view of a Amphizoa (Amphizoidae) Beetle Larva from Sears Creek in Washington
This is the first of it's family I've seen, collected from a tiny, fishless stream in the Cascades. The three species of this genus all live in the Northwest and are predators that primarily eat stonefly nymphs Merritt R.W., Cummins, K.W., and Berg, M.B. (2019).
27" brown trout, my largest ever. It was the sub-dominant fish in its pool. After this, I hooked the bigger one, but I couldn't land it.
Troutnut is a project started in 2003 by salmonid ecologist Jason "Troutnut" Neuswanger to help anglers and fly tyers unabashedly embrace the entomological side of the sport. Learn more about Troutnut or support the project for an enhanced experience here.

Crepuscular
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Boiling Springs, PA

Posts: 920
Crepuscular on Mar 5, 2013March 5th, 2013, 9:54 am EST
Just a few cases on this rock
Entoman
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Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Entoman on Mar 5, 2013March 5th, 2013, 10:16 am EST
Man, that's a healthy population! Psilotreta (Dark Blue Sedge)?
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
Falsifly
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Hayward, WI.

Posts: 660
Falsifly on Mar 5, 2013March 5th, 2013, 10:22 am EST
Any thoughts on what appears to be a somewhat organized pattern?
Falsifly
When asked what I just caught that monster on I showed him. He put on his magnifiers and said, "I can't believe they can see that."
Entoman
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Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Entoman on Mar 5, 2013March 5th, 2013, 10:46 am EST
Each specimen optimizing flow velocity creating a group pattern that tracks the laminar flow like smoke in a wind tunnel?
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
Falsifly
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Hayward, WI.

Posts: 660
Falsifly on Mar 5, 2013March 5th, 2013, 11:35 am EST
Each specimen optimizing flow velocity creating a group pattern that tracks the laminar flow like smoke in a wind tunnel?

I don’t know Kurt. I can only associate that with vortex generators placed on the cambered surface of high performance airfoils to promote laminar flow, reducing drag and delaying airflow separation in stall progression. Would there be an advantage in streamlining the flow of nutrients to the larva? I’m not familiar with how they feed.
Falsifly
When asked what I just caught that monster on I showed him. He put on his magnifiers and said, "I can't believe they can see that."
Sayfu
Posts: 560
Sayfu on Mar 5, 2013March 5th, 2013, 11:43 am EST

As a real novice at aquatic bug ID'n my guess would have been dicosmoecis given the bigger rock inclusions. But I also have never seen them that tightly grouped.
Entoman
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Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Entoman on Mar 5, 2013March 5th, 2013, 12:17 pm EST
Alan - They are grazers not filter feeders, so their concern for proper flows would have more to do with oxygen delivery. They would be more random and less concentrated if feeding so I assume the behavior in the photo is related to orientation for pupation? Creno will know.

Sayfu - Yes, Dicosmoecus (October Caddis) was my first impression as well but that's just our western bias kicking in.:) PA doesn't have them. These cases are much smaller and wider for their length compared to our critter.

Edit: The larvae are green as well.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
Lastchance
Portage, PA

Posts: 437
Lastchance on Mar 5, 2013March 5th, 2013, 12:31 pm EST
Each specimen optimizing flow velocity creating a group pattern that tracks the laminar flow like smoke in a wind tunnel?


Wow! I don't know what you said, but it sure sounds intelligent. I'm staying away from that laminar flow. It sounds dangerous. HA!HA!
Entoman
Entoman's profile picture
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Entoman on Mar 5, 2013March 5th, 2013, 2:48 pm EST
Wow! I don't know what you said, but it sure sounds intelligent.

I'm not sure I know either, Bruce. But it does sound good, doesn't it...:)

Perhaps I used Laminar inappropriately, Alan. I'm talking about the flow of water over the rock and each organism's attempts to adapt to the changes in it caused by the others.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
Falsifly
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Hayward, WI.

Posts: 660
Falsifly on Mar 5, 2013March 5th, 2013, 3:07 pm EST
I'm talking about the flow of water over the rock and each organisms attemts to adapt to the changes in it caused by the others.

Ok Kurt, now things are making a little more sense. It would have been helpful for our discussion had the rock's position, relative to the current flow direction, been known. Yes?
Falsifly
When asked what I just caught that monster on I showed him. He put on his magnifiers and said, "I can't believe they can see that."
Entoman
Entoman's profile picture
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Entoman on Mar 5, 2013March 5th, 2013, 3:15 pm EST
Yes. I'm assuming the rock was caddis up and they were on the back side? If the caddis were under the rock (as when they are feeding and living normally), I would expect them to be much less concentrated to allow for grazing room.
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
Crepuscular
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Boiling Springs, PA

Posts: 920
Crepuscular on Mar 5, 2013March 5th, 2013, 3:20 pm EST

It would have been helpful for our discussion had the rock's position, relative to the current flow direction, been known. Yes?


Downstream side of the rock. There were a bunch of rocks like that and they were all positioned the same way. I'm sure that Creno can elucidate why they do that. My guess would be that since they don't need to feed, the most protected position on the substrate would be the downstream side. But like you described earlier, they would still be able to get plenty of oxygen.
Martinlf
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Moderator
Palmyra PA

Posts: 3047
Martinlf on Mar 5, 2013March 5th, 2013, 3:26 pm EST
I believe this is actually the site of a mosh pit at a caddis rave. Had Eric put his ear very close to the rock before removing it from the stream he most likely would have heard the sound of electric guitars. In a few minutes the larvae surfing would have begun.
"He spread them a yard and a half. 'And every one that got away is this big.'"

--Fred Chappell
Falsifly
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Hayward, WI.

Posts: 660
Falsifly on Mar 5, 2013March 5th, 2013, 3:37 pm EST
Ha, good one Louis.
Falsifly
When asked what I just caught that monster on I showed him. He put on his magnifiers and said, "I can't believe they can see that."
Entoman
Entoman's profile picture
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Entoman on Mar 5, 2013March 5th, 2013, 3:39 pm EST
LOL!
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman
Creno
Grants Pass, OR

Posts: 302
Creno on Mar 5, 2013March 5th, 2013, 4:42 pm EST
a mosh pit ain't far off. They are pupal cases so they are not feeding. Just like any other bug we have no idea what they are doing - we just make up stuff about what we think they are doing. Folks think aggregate pupation is a predator avoidance mechanism. The predator has to find the right rock and when it does it is quickly sated by the mosh and the majority survive. Same rationale put forth for some schooling fish. But who knows - there sure are alot more taxa out here that don't do this and seem to get along just fine.

What I find interesting in taxa that do this is that they often pick the largest substrate around - they don't like their rock & roll. When I am collecting I always start with the large rocks/sticks/etc. That is usually where the most taxa are. What I don't understand is how they find the largest substrate around and how do they know when they have found it? Fascinating stuff.
Crepuscular
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Boiling Springs, PA

Posts: 920
Crepuscular on Mar 6, 2013March 6th, 2013, 4:14 am EST
Man, that's a healthy population! Psilotreta (Dark Blue Sedge)?


I'm pretty sure these are Neophylax.


Feathers5
Posts: 287
Feathers5 on Mar 6, 2013March 6th, 2013, 4:53 am EST
I believe this is actually the site of a mosh pit at a caddis rave. Had Eric put his ear very close to the rock before removing it from the stream he most likely would have heard the sound of electric guitars. In a few minutes the larvae surfing would have begun.


I thing they were gathering for the Harlem Shake.
Oldredbarn
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Novi, MI

Posts: 2600
Oldredbarn on Mar 6, 2013March 6th, 2013, 7:43 am EST
Location, location, location! ;)
"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood
Entoman
Entoman's profile picture
Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604
Entoman on Mar 6, 2013March 6th, 2013, 12:33 pm EST
I'm pretty sure these are Neophylax.

Yep, your latest photos are great and show this unmistakably. Whew... Psilotreta's repution is in tact. I didn't think they were into such unbecoming behavior as mosh pits...:)
"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman

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