Artistic view of a Male Pteronarcys californica (Pteronarcyidae) (Giant Salmonfly) Stonefly Adult from the Gallatin River in Montana

Salmonflies
Pteronarcys californica

The giant Salmonflies of the Western mountains are legendary for their proclivity to elicit consistent dry-fly action and ferocious strikes.

Looking across Island Lake toward the Titcomb Basin—one of the popular crown jewels of the Wind River Mountains

From Island Lake in Wyoming

Stream photos

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Kogotus Stonefly Nymph Kogotus Stonefly Nymph

Dorsal view of a Kogotus (Perlodidae) Stonefly Nymph from Mystery Creek #199 in Washington

This one pretty clearly keys to Kogotus, but it also looks fairly different from specimens I caught in the same creek about a month later in the year. With only one species of the genus known in Washington, I'm not sure about the answer to this ID.

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27" brown trout, my largest ever. It was the sub-dominant fish in its pool. After this, I hooked the bigger one, but I couldn't land it.

Troutnut is a project started in 2003 by salmonid ecologist Jason "Troutnut" Neuswanger to help anglers and fly tyers unabashedly embrace the entomological side of the sport. Learn more about Troutnut or support the project for an enhanced experience here.

Tiny Baetid

Crepuscular

Boiling Springs, PA

Posts: 920

Crepuscular on Oct 2, 2014October 2nd, 2014, 9:42 am EDT

These tiny Baetids have been on the menu latelty. Sorry for the crappy photo hard to tell if the hind wing is even there. I think it is. less than 5mm long. Any thoughts?

Taxon

Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1311

Taxon on Oct 2, 2014October 2nd, 2014, 11:10 am EDT

Hi Eric-

Any thoughts?

My guess would be Plauditus punctiventris. I believe hind wings are absent in your photo, and that what appears to be hind wing slightly protruding behind the left fore wing, may actually be a joint of the right hind leg.

Best regards,
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com

Millcreek
Healdsburg, CA

Posts: 344

Millcreek on Oct 2, 2014October 2nd, 2014, 11:59 am EDT

Eric- It's grasping at straws, but maybe Acentrella? I can't tell if it's just the angle of the photo but it looks like there may be a small "knob" on the top of the mesonotum.

"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?"
-Albert Einstein

Crepuscular

Boiling Springs, PA

Posts: 920

Crepuscular on Oct 2, 2014October 2nd, 2014, 2:00 pm EDT

Thanks gentlemen, I know it's a terrible photo. the little bugger flew away before I could pickle her. Tempermental models, they are all so flakey. ;)

I'll have to see if I can get a few more. At least I know the color and size for my immitations. and it's been very nice out..

Gutcutter

Pennsylvania

Posts: 470

Gutcutter on Oct 2, 2014October 2nd, 2014, 2:46 pm EDT

Now you're speaking my language.
Oh, and I know that spot...

I think it is a size 22 TMC 2488 like this...

or maybe this...

or maybe even a TMC100 size 22 like this...

All men who fish may in turn be divided into two parts: those who fish for trout and those who don't. Trout fishermen are a race apart: they are a dedicated crew- indolent, improvident, and quietly mad.

-Robert Traver, Trout Madness

Crepuscular

Boiling Springs, PA

Posts: 920

Crepuscular on Oct 2, 2014October 2nd, 2014, 6:40 pm EDT

Now you're speaking my language.

I think it is a size 22 TMC 2488 like this...

or maybe this...

or maybe even a TMC100 size 22 like this...

I like those. especially the top one. Nice long abdomen.

Entoman

Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604

Entoman on Oct 2, 2014October 2nd, 2014, 10:14 pm EDT

Looks like a tiny Sulfur to me (now that sounds vaguely familiar). ;) Perhaps Procloeon?

"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman

Taxon

Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1311

Taxon on Oct 3, 2014October 3rd, 2014, 12:34 am EDT

Hi guys-

Here is a list of: possible suspects.

Best regards,
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com

Crepuscular

Boiling Springs, PA

Posts: 920

Crepuscular on Oct 3, 2014October 3rd, 2014, 4:42 am EDT

I don't like the road I'm about to venture down but, how much interspecific color variation do you think is present? The reason I ask is because there are a bunch of olive colored baetids around too, basically the same size. Both males and females have the olive coloration and the golden tan coloration. I know for a fact that the olive ones have hind wings with a costal projection, the forwing intercalaries are in pairs and the costal projection on the hind wing is somewhat broadly based (I don't like that character). the specimen I have is a female, its a brownish olive color 5.5 mm. I suppose we could be talking about separate species emerging simulatiously.

this is what the hindwing looks like please excuse my poor rendition but I think it's pretty accurate.:

Crepuscular

Boiling Springs, PA

Posts: 920

Crepuscular on Oct 3, 2014October 3rd, 2014, 5:01 am EDT

Looks like a tiny Sulfur to me (now that sounds vaguely familiar). ;) Perhaps Procloeon?

ugh...;)

Feathers5
Posts: 287

Feathers5 on Oct 3, 2014October 3rd, 2014, 5:41 am EDT

Me, too! I was going to correct you guys, but I decided to wait until someone knowledgeable posted.

Crepuscular

Boiling Springs, PA

Posts: 920

Crepuscular on Oct 3, 2014October 3rd, 2014, 7:17 am EDT

Me, too! I was going to correct you guys

Correct what?

Taxon

Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1311

Taxon on Oct 3, 2014October 3rd, 2014, 8:02 am EDT

Eric-

this is what the hindwing looks like please excuse my poor rendition but I think it's pretty accurate.:

Among the Baetid hind wing venations which are illustrated in The Biology Of Mayflies, the venation of your rendition most closely resembles that of Acerpenna pygmaea, which was classified as Baetis pygmaesus at the time the book was written.

Best regards,
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com

Crepuscular

Boiling Springs, PA

Posts: 920

Crepuscular on Oct 3, 2014October 3rd, 2014, 8:57 am EDT

thanks Rodger. When I take it through Merritt and Cummins that's where I wind up too. But that still doesn't give us an Id for the Baetid pictured, that's why I was wondering about the interspecific variation in color, that always dubious character...

Taxon

Site Editor
Plano, TX

Posts: 1311

Taxon on Oct 3, 2014October 3rd, 2014, 12:07 pm EDT

Eric-

If you are able to capture a female subimago of the coloration and size of the photo you posted, I suspect your ("I suppose we could be talking about separate species emerging simultaneously") statement may be proven to be accurate.

Rodger

Best regards,
Roger Rohrbeck
www.FlyfishingEntomology.com

Lastchance
Portage, PA

Posts: 437

Lastchance on Oct 3, 2014October 3rd, 2014, 6:26 pm EDT

Looks like a tiny Sulfur to me (now that sounds vaguely familiar). ;) Perhaps Procloeon?

ugh...;)

I was referring to this post: "Looks like a tiny sulfur to me." It was a joke.

Crepuscular

Boiling Springs, PA

Posts: 920

Crepuscular on Oct 4, 2014October 4th, 2014, 11:05 am EDT

Looks like a tiny Sulfur to me (now that sounds vaguely familiar). ;) Perhaps Procloeon?

ugh...;)

I was referring to this post: "Looks like a tiny sulfur to me." It was a joke.

Oh, sorry. I'm a little slow on the uptake sometimes.

Entoman

Northern CA & ID

Posts: 2604

Entoman on Oct 5, 2014October 5th, 2014, 9:03 am EDT

I don't like the road I'm about to venture down but, how much interspecific color variation do you think is present?

I'm with you. I feel the same way about baetid hind wings as well. It's been my experience that it's the rare specimen that matches anything diagramed.

Assuming your diagram is of a male wing and absent further evidence your little olive one is most likely Baetis. Acerpenna has a more acute process and the wing margin beyond is undulate.

Do the little amber ones have double or single intercalaries? Usually when they are this color, size and body shape one of the spur wings is the match. Either Procloeon or Anafroptilum would be my guess. The habitat sure looks right...

"It's not that I find fishing so important, it's just that I find all other endeavors of Man equally unimportant... And not nearly as much fun!" Robert Traver, Anatomy of a Fisherman

Crepuscular

Boiling Springs, PA

Posts: 920

Crepuscular on Oct 5, 2014October 5th, 2014, 12:42 pm EDT

Well I've caused enough problems with this thread. I say we table it until I stop paying attention to those rising fish and get some of the little critters and take some decent photos. ;)

Oldredbarn

Novi, MI

Posts: 2600

Oldredbarn on Oct 6, 2014October 6th, 2014, 7:28 am EDT

Well I've caused enough problems with this thread. I say we table it until I stop paying attention to those rising fish and get some of the little critters and take some decent photos. ;)

So tabled...You trouble maker! :)

Spence

Lovely autumnal photo there! There never seems to be a bad day to be standing in or next to some moving water.

"Even when my best efforts fail it's a satisfying challenge, and that, after all, is the essence of fly fishing." -Chauncy Lively

"Envy not the man who lives beside the river, but the man the river flows through." Joseph T Heywood